China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Bellum_Romanum]

Sovereign territory being worth far more than financial incentives is hardly new or unique to the Philippines. Doesn't necessarily make it a good idea in this case, but the precedent is there. People are willing to die for worthless rocks.



While that's true, then you quickly run into the problem of trying to guess what might be going on inside somebody's head. When there's a rational explanation instead, I prefer to take it.

You're looking at this from AN AMERICA PERSPECTIVE thereby seeing this issue with a very Western centric view and understanding of the matter. Amongst the ASEAN countries its only the PH that's playing this bullshit charade of acting tough, playing tough based in illusory understanding and placing of its country's defense from and by the U.S. without it, that country would not raise a damn peep squeak about the whole matter.

 

[Wrought]

You're looking at this from AN AMERICA PERSPECTIVE thereby seeing this issue with a very Western centric view and understanding of the matter. Amongst the ASEAN countries its only the PH that's playing this bullshit charade of acting tough, playing tough based in illusory understanding and placing of its country's defense from and by the U.S. without it, that country would not raise a damn peep squeak about the whole matter.

为什么你以为我是美国人？错误就是错误， 不是美国或者中国。

They are acting out because they are weak and in danger. Others in ASEAN are not so weak or not so endangered, or both. Others have real islands, not rusting wrecks. Others are farther away. Others are on worse terms with the US. The list goes on.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

为什么你以为我是美国人？

They are acting out because they are weak and in danger. Others are not so weak or not so endangered, or both.

you seem to be looking at it from their perspective.

Some members of their governing class care about 'face', 'honor' and 'reputation' 1000x more than Chinese and Japanese.

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That is because they think they have the material wealth to the degree where spiritual victories are worth more than material victories, since they can afford a loss, but can't afford to feel sad.

Filipinos might think that way, but they don't have the material capability to be taken seriously while thinking that way, and the sooner they realized this, the better it will be for everyone including themselves.

 

[Wrought]

you seem to be looking at it from their perspective.

Some members of their governing class care about 'face', 'honor' and 'reputation' 1000x more than Chinese and Japanese.

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That is because they think they have the material wealth to the degree where spiritual victories are worth more than material victories, since they can afford a loss, but can't afford to feel sad.

Filipinos might think that way, but they don't have the material capability to be taken seriously while thinking that way, and the sooner they realized this, the better it will be for everyone including themselves.

It would be very foolish to not at least try understanding their perspective. How else do you think China can hope to win? Just kill everyone who disagrees? That is much closer to the American perspective, brute force everything. They are used to military supremacy and enjoy it, and try to solve every problem by bombing it. In contrast, the Chinese perspective is more restrained and you'll notice it's the coast guard using water cannons instead of the navy using missiles. Because 20 years of waiting worked, and established the favorable status quo which exists today. Because it's better to let time do the hard work for you. But you wouldn't know it from the whining here about the supply missions every month. Some people have no patience.

I don't doubt there are dumb nationalists in the Philippines, every country has those. But clearly they aren't in charge, because the Philippines has not tried to suicidally hit back. The trick is to keep it that way, while pushing them off their outpost, while not using force. Any rich moron can blow something up, but it takes skill to win without bombs.

 

[Feima]

为什么你以为我是美国人？错误就是错误， 不是美国或者中国。

This reads like machine translated Chinese. Native speaker doesn't write like this.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

It would be very foolish to not at least try understanding their perspective. How else do you think China can hope to win? Just kill everyone who disagrees? That is much closer to the American perspective, brute force everything. They are used to military supremacy and enjoy it, and try to solve every problem by bombing it. In contrast, the Chinese perspective is more restrained and you'll notice it's the coast guard using water cannons instead of the navy using missiles. Because 20 years of waiting worked, and established the favorable status quo which exists today. Because it's better to let time do the hard work for you. But you wouldn't know it from the whining here about the supply missions every month. Some people have no patience.

I don't doubt there are dumb nationalists in the Philippines, every country has those. But clearly they aren't in charge, because the Philippines has not tried to suicidally hit back. The trick is to keep it that way, while pushing them off their outpost, while not using force. Any rich moron can blow something up, but it takes skill to win without bombs.

What lol how do you get from humiliating them with nothing they can do about it to just bombing everything? The Americans would rather win a spiritual victory and look 'defiant' against the odds than to ever back down a tiny bit. What happens when they can't bomb something, not even Iran much less Russia or China? Well, you get impotent raging instead of smartly finding out a way to humiliate the enemy.

What China is doing now is on the mild side of appropriate. That is, using a sub-war level of force designed to humiliate and salami slice. I would go much more aggressive like ramming their ships, 'accidentally' shooting an 'unidentified' vessel, arresting random fishermen, etc. To humiliate them even further and make it clear they can't do anything about it. That's how you win against the arrogant: by forcing them to eat shit and have no recourse because they lose if they escalate and if they back down they see themselves as weak.

 

[Wrought]

It is a garbage plan not because of idea, but the timing. US election time. Israel and Ukraine priority. Worst timing possible.

I agree the timing now is poor, but this didn't start now. When this started, Ukraine was doing much better, Israel was at peace, and the US election was far away. Hard to blame the Philippines for not seeing the future.

 

[coolgod]

Right but is that official policy from Manila? Or just some crazies online?

There will always be some crazies who will never believe you no matter what, and there's no point in trying to convince them.

Who decides the historical textbooks? The government. I haven't read Filipino history textbooks, but I'd be surprised if they didn't portray China in a similar fashion as the rest of China's neighbours.

 

[Wrought]

Who decides the historical textbooks? The government. I haven't read Filipino history textbooks, but I'd be surprised if they didn't portray China in a similar fashion as the rest of China's neighbours.

Sure, but that requires the crazies to be in government writing history curriculum. I haven't read Filipino textbooks either, but I'm fairly certain they don't blame Chinese pirates 500 years ago. 1500s would be what, wokou pirates? Japanese?

 

[TK3600]

I agree the timing now is poor, but this didn't start now. When this started, Ukraine was doing much better, Israel was at peace, and the US election was far away. Hard to blame the Philippines for not seeing the future.

Israel is at war for month yet they continue. Ukraine making progress is not a good thing. It means Ukraine is more attractive to invest. Ukraine losing now is actually a good thing. But then Israel happened. Israel is even higher priority than Ukraine, let alone Phillipines