China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Lezt]

I've also seen pictures of Vietnam inducting new patrol vessels with an extended/hardened bow (on pk defence I think), designed specifically for ramming - the Chinese coastguard fleet may start to struggle if those are inducted in large numbers. I think china should have something similar if Beijing insists on engaging in 'small stick diplomacy' of utilising only civilian/law enforcement vessels.

Hardened bow is not that hard to defeat, just add a few strong girders to form a cage around the ship and you are back in business -> like in firefighting ships.

Besides, if a CCG sinks, it will give legitimate reason for China to lets say, tow away all VCG vessels -> just board them and overpower the crew.

 

[BigWang]

What do you mean they will not all die? You mean you are willing to sacrifices civilians? Be responsible when you mention things like that (although I know you are angry, but that do not give you the rights to take life - no matters whose lightly.)

As to cutting of optic fibre... do you or the Chinese had solid proof it was the Vietnamese who did that? Please note that not too distance history, the Chinese was also accused of cutting underwater cables belonging to Vietnam. So... does Vietnam start shooting into China? No? Why? Vietnam is weaker? If that is the reason, and China is stronger and China do as you proposed, doesn't that make the Chinese nothing but bullies?



1) That would hurt China too. Chinese businessmen and companies in Vietnam invested quite a large sum of money, pulling those out would hurt normal Chinese citizen.
2) Freeze of Vietnamese assets in China - what have normal Vietnamese people who invested in China did wrong to China? In what law would the Chinese do that? And if the Chinese actually did that... then what guarantee would other foreigners who invested into China feel? They might just pull out... and worst... those that pull out still needed a place of production... so where can they go... Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand (less of Thailand now until she stabilized). So in a sense, yeah, I hope China did that... then investment will come rolling into ASEAN.

Like I say before, you cannot look at things in a single angle. Many things are actually interlinked. Of course you can hammer Vietnam easily, whats with the current China's military might, you can do funny things to Vietnam's economy, you can even do as you claim, build a dam, let the Vietnamese die of thirst.

But internationally, who is going to pay? China... thats who.

I am so glad that the leader of China is not actually doing what you have said. They have display utmost maturity and responsibility and it is comforting.

Look at all foreign factories got burned in Vietnam now, garment factories, furniture factory, shoes factory, steel mills(high pollution) those are low quality investors. They can move to ASEAN all they want do. and China actually wants to get rid of them too.

What China wants is high quality investor like this. They came to setup in China because of China market and plenty of money around. They can't just go anywhere else.

Again, high quality investors will want to setup in China no matter what because it has the right market. They won't pull out because of some bad perception of China politically. Who want to abandon a big pierce of juicy meat??
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The Samsung China Semiconductor Inc held a ceremony to celebrate its new production base in Xi'an on May 9.

The company will start mass-production of high-end flash memory chips in the Xi'an High-tech Zone in the capital of Northwest China's Shaanxi province.

"In the past, the Silk Road that started from Xi'an had an important role in the communication of Eastern and Western civilisations. We hope the Samsung China Semiconductor Inc founded by both China and South Korea will become the start of a new Silk Road of the 21st century," said Kwon Oh-hyun, CEO of Samsung Electronics at the ceremony.

The company's new site was a vast farmland 20 months ago. Now the facility covers an area of 1.14 million sq metres with some 230,000 sq m of floor area for the production of 10-nanometre flash memory chips (V-NAND) aimed at serving market needs both in China and abroad.

The $7 billion first phase of the semiconductor factory employed about 1,300 local staff and 700 South Korean staff.

"Thanks to the support of governments at all levels and excellent local talented people, such a high-end semiconductor factory can be built in such a short time," said Park ChanHoon, chairman of Samsung China Semiconductor Inc.

Samsung is the only electronic company to mass-produce V-NAND in the industry, said Kim Ki-nam, director at the memory chip department of Samsung Electronics.

He said compared with previous products, the V-NAND is two times faster at reading and writing data and it can prolong semiconductor life by 10 times with 50 per cent less electricity consumption.

"To produce this top-notch product in Xi'an has significant meaning, because high-end talents form both China and South Korea will jointly work for the new-generation semiconductor technologies," Kim said.

The company aims to become a leader not only in the semiconductor field, but also in environment protection, said executives.

Kwon Oh-hyun told reporters that Samsung Electronics has taken environmental safety as a top priority.

To guarantee a safe working environment the Xi'an based Samsung Semiconductor factory established an accident precaution system to react to emergencies at any given time.

The company also built an automatic cut-off system and a 24-hour emergency reaction system.

The most energy-efficient production and pollution treatment equipment, which is upheld to higher safety standards than both the Chinese and South Korean laws mandate, are used, said Kwon.

Kwon said the above-mentioned operations were approved by industry professionals and will be taken on by senior technology experts in the company.

A $500 million investment will help create a semiconductor sealing and packaging facility, which is due to be completed by the end of 2014.

As well as the semiconductor productions two R&D centers from Samsung Electronics and Samsung Digital began operation in Xi'an on Sept 12, 2013.

More than 60 related companies have settled in the Xi'an High-tech Zone and it is expected that this will grow to form an industry accumulation in the area.

More involvement

Samsung is also actively involved with community activities in Shaanxi province.

It signed a memorandum with the Shaanxi provincial government on Sept 12, 2013 to jointly promote enterprise social responsibility cooperation.

The Samsung CSR Shaanxi Pilot Area was officially opened on March 27, 2014.

In 2013, Samsung had good operations in China, said Chang Won Kie, president of Samsung China.

"However, as our main target market - the high-end segmentation is nearly full, it is expected that we will meet some obstacles in 2014," Chang said.

He said the company would strengthen the operation of customer experience centers by improving post services to cater to the changing market.

The company plans to expand its business from electronics to finance, medical care and urbanization in China.

It will also initiate programs including Hope schools and intelligent classrooms to support China's youth education, Chang said.

 

[rhino123]

All I am saying China may not get much from drilling oil near that area but if Vietnam wants to play like that.

Then China can make it pay a price by keep up the pressure from all front and prevent it from being developed into a developed nation.

That , I am pretty sure.

I agree that China should keep up the pressure. China can make this into an international incident rather than doing things along. China should play the same game as what everyone else is playing. Instead of doing all those things that you mentioned, China should formally complained to the international court and stuff like that, bring reporters to the area where the cables are cut. Show the world how unreliable Vietnam is.

China had the money and the influence to do it. Why not make use of that, rather than doing all of what you say, which will only ended up in deeper China threat, China unpeaceful rise that will again lead to lost of investment in China, militarizing Japan, etc etc that will only cause more pressure on China.

China doesn't need all her enemies surrounding her. She need friends too... even if it was not friends but at least not allies to her enemies... And that is a game China should play and not by playing irresponsible games as you have mentioned... whats with... "preventing others from developing into a developed nation." It is this type of language that actually fuel more on the threats of China to the entire world.

 

[rhino123]

Look at all foreign factories got burned in Vietnam now, garment factories, furniture factory, shoes factory, steel mills(high pollution) those are low quality investors. They can move to ASEAN all they want do. and China actually wants to get rid of them too.

What China wants is high quality investor like this. They came to setup in China because of China market and plenty of money around. They can't just go anywhere else.

Again, high quality investors will want to setup in China no matter what because it has the right market. They won't pull out because of some bad perception of China politically. Who want to abandon a big pierce of juicy meat??

Which is a good thing if you think logically and put personal feeling aside.

Vietnam is burning foreign companies... foreign companies are moving out... so where will they go? Back to their own country? Hardly... So who is the nearest to Vietnam but have better infrastructure? China.

So investment is moving into China... and with that came reliance of those companies and their country to China too. Isn't it good?

They can move to ASEAN all they want do. and China actually wants to get rid of them too.

That again is irresponsible. Who are you to say that China actually wanted to get rid of them? They are money. China would impose law on anti-pollution and even set up better agency and strict regulation to control these companies. But they are good investment into China and they are good money... plus they are a great source of employment for the people.

As to your claims on high quality investors... what are they? Semi-conductors? These are highly polluted industries if you do not know. Auto-mobile industries... again high pollution. High tech industries? What high tech industries? Service line? Finance? What? And do you know how many semi-skill to unskilled labours are there in China? thousands? Try millions. And all those so call low quality investors are out of the nations... how many people are going to be jobless? And if that happen, who is going to help these people? All these would become social problems. Have you seriously think of that? Even for a little bit?

And again... let me say this... look at things at more angles and don't be narrow.

 

[BigWang]

"preventing others from developing into a developed nation." It is this type of language that actually fuel more on the threats of China to the entire world.

Same way US sees China overtaking it economically as threat and try to do anything possible to stop that or slow it down.

Btw you keep using this type of language of China has to responsible nation, cannot afford to be perceived as threat to the world.

Well what do you know, this oil drilling is Xi's answer to Obama's pivot.

It's a throwing the gauntlet down and check-mate US to see if it indeed backup his words, calling it bluff.

To be peaceful, responsible nation is a "Big Hat" putting on China's head and CHina wants to rid of that.

 

[rhino123]

Same way US sees China overtaking it economically as threat and try to do anything possible to stop that or slow it down.

So why give them more of a reason to do it? By doing all that you have said... you are giving whoever more of a reason to doing whatever they can to slow China down.

And don't think that China is strong enough now that she can withstand offences in all areas. As I have said... it is a game, and since China was already in this theatre, she should play the game too... and excel in it.

One more advise to you, my young friend.

"It is not always, Show your muscles, show your muscles. Sometime, you need to show weakness, not as much as to allow others to climb all over you... I always believe what Deng Xiaoping had mentioned before - "不要强出头"." China is making big strips now. Why destroy everything she had accomplish just because you want to 'punish' a smaller and much weaker country?

Know who is your real enemy... (I will not say who here. But those who are Chinese should know, or there will be no more hope)

 

[BigWang]

So why give them more of a reason to do it? By doing all that you have said... you are giving whoever more of a reason to doing whatever they can to slow China down.

And don't think that China is strong enough now that she can withstand offences in all areas. As I have said... it is a game, and since China was already in this theatre, she should play the game too... and excel in it.

Reason? it's already out there. Everybody knows that.
Fortunately for China, it's too late. In 2000, US wanted to slow down China because it was growing fast and it didn't want China to surpass it. KaBam, in comes Bin Laden and the 9/11, bought China 10 yrs of free reign. In those 10 yrs , CHina triple, quartruple its GDP and never look back.

After 2009 financial meltdown, US try desperately to slow CHina down with record high anti-dumping tariffs on China industrial products, banning of CHinese telecomm companies into US market, NSA spying on them. Then comes TPP trying exclude China,

Well it doesn't matter, it's too late.

China already took the best shot from US trying to slow it down economically, so now comes this military things and confrontation.

2000, Bin Laden helped out , 2014 Putin helped out, so, now China can deal with US and all its pawns.

Without Putin and the Ukraine thing, Xi wouldn't make this oil drilling exercise. But with now, timing is right to pull such move. China and Russia ready to sign 30 yrs gas deal and strategic partners.

So, at this point, China really doesn't care what so called international community think of it anymore. It passed beyond that.

 

[rhino123]

Reason? it's already out there. Everybody knows that.
Fortunately for China, it's too late. In 2000, US wanted to slow down China because it was growing fast and it didn't want China to surpass it. KaBam, in comes Bin Laden and the 9/11, bought China 10 yrs of free reign. In those 10 yrs , CHina triple, quartruple its GDP and never look back.

After 2009 financial meltdown, US try desperately to slow CHina down with record high anti-dumping tariffs on China industrial products, banning of CHinese telecomm companies into US market, NSA spying on them. Then comes TPP trying exclude China,

Well it doesn't matter, it's too late.

China already took the best shot from US trying to slow it down economically, so now comes this military things and confrontation.

2000, Bin Laden helped out , 2014 Putin helped out, so, now China can deal with US and all its pawns.

Without Putin and the Ukraine thing, Xi wouldn't make this oil drilling exercise. But with now, timing is right to pull such move. China and Russia ready to sign 30 yrs gas deal and strategic partners.

Look like you don't know who is the real enemy of China. Too bad.

Take a while and think. If the US cannot content China anymore and who is the nearest that US would sponsor to that will likely cause the most damage to China? Philippines? Vietnam? Or who? (not these two by the way.) Who is asking to be militarized? Who although having smaller amount of ships but are by the way qualitatively superior or equal to China at the moment? And who had one of the most professional standing army in this region other than China and Russia?

Come on! Relax and think for awhile.

Yeah... of course you can claim victory of all those things that you have claimed. And indeed they are good cause for celebration. But if China started getting tough... then... maybe, others will think that China is more of a threat as compared to Russia.

Note this... other than the precious metals... what is the largest commodities that China exported that actually supported a large part of her economic. Can these commodities be source elsewhere by foreign customers?

Russia on the other hand had something that people wanted - GAS.

Oh... and one more thing... you really really think that China is that secure internally? Think of Xinjiang and Tibet... Then think of Syria and Libya. If the rebels... however small in number are being sponsored and armed... even if they cannot deroot China... they sure as hell can cause massive headaches, damages and casualties to PRC.

Also... do I need to remind you... China is surrounded by lots of not-that-friendly countries?

 

[Franklin]

This article tries to explain why Taiwanese factories were hit in the dispute between China and Vietnam.

There has been some bewilderment expressed as to why Vietnamese demonstrating–against the PRC’s provocative positioning of its HYSY 981 oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam as part of its Exclusive Economic Zone–attacked Taiwanese factories.

The answer is depressingly simple.

Anti-Chinese prejudice—including prejudice against all Chinese, including Taiwanese Chinese, PRC Chinese, and Vietnam’s own ethnic Chinese citizens—is baked into Vietnam’s current political and social narrative.

It is not a matter that Vietnam was colonized by China in the far off imperial era or, for that matter, the fact that Chiang Kaishek’s KMT army behaved extremely poorly when it made a clumsy play to claim northern Vietnam as part of China’s political sphere immediately following World War II.

Anti-Chinese sentiment grew out of the Vietnamese government’s sense of threat in the 1970s, as it pursued its alliance with the Soviet Union while spurning the People’s Republic of China.

Ethnic Chinese dominated the commercial sector of the economy, especially in recently liberated/conquered Saigon, and were seen as an undesirable social element capable of disloyalty to the Communist government, divided loyalties vis a vis the PRC, and also serving as a key component in the bourgeoise economy that presented obstacles to the socialization.

So the Vietnamese government adopted and implemented various policies hostile to its ethnic Chinese community. Hostile enough, in fact, that over half a million ethnic Chinese fled. Here’s a good, if perhaps dated, discussion of the period.

Remember the “boat people” of the 1970s? Maybe not. But they were predominantly ethnic Chinese Vietnamese.

The Vietnam government also implemented extremely harsh measures against Chinese communities in Cambodia during its invasion to topple the PRC-backed Khmer Rouge.

This combination of toxic elements contributed to the PRC invasion of Vietnam in 1979 which, in a development little recognized in Vietnam today, was executed by the PRC after US president Jimmy Carter gave Deng Xiaoping the green light as part of the whole “contain Soviet influence in Asia” exercise (now, of course, succeeded by the whole “contain PRC influence in Asia” exercise).

Distrust of Chinese—not just China i.e. the PRC—is still an essential social and political element in modern Vietnamese nationalism, as well as the government’s effort to maintain its a central, legitimate position in that nationalistic narrative.

So, it’s not much of a stretch for angry nationalists demonstrating against a (PRC) Chinese oil rig to burn down an (ROC) Chinese plastics factory.

The good news, if there is any, is that this level of anti-Chinese resentment and violence has always been bubbling near the surface in Vietnam. It’s been managed before, and I’m sure the government in Hanoi hopes it will be able to get the lid on again.

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[aquauant]

PLA troops spotted near China-Vietnam border

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Hong Kong news has more photos on the troop movement:

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China deploys destroyer near oil rig (news in Chinese)

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