China's SCS Strategy Thread

[SteelBird]

Mace, judging from the large wheels and barrel, I think this is older model though I can't be sure which. If this is the 99, you can be sure they are not to the Sino-Vietnamese border because I believe China won't use its best tank to deal with Vietnam.

 

[rhino123]

Actually I don't think the tanks and troops are to deal with Vietnam. It is more to prevent Vietnam from likely incursion if war actually occurred. But frankly speaking... I am wondering if the air force are being mobilized thus far.

 

[Equation]

Yeah. And you have to ask yourself. Why? From what I see was that the Japanese cannot build all these program because of US. And if all the action of China had really, gotten so hard and the Americans are now not able to or felt it was too hard or non-profitable to do so... do you think they would not just let go of the leash that they have been holding all this time.

Think of it this way... US is a wall that contained Japan behind the wall. When the wall that is US, being lifted off...

(Anyway, that is too political and on the verge of going into a flame war, so I will stop here now.)

You mean to tell me all this time they've been building up a navy just to show off? Plus Japan doesn't have man space program, so they're behind China on that and can't blame the US "wall" for that.

Anything that is Made in China now... can it be sourced else where?

Okay, what about Mexico or India right now? And do you know why not? Because they don't have the infrastructure and the management expertise to put in thousands of workers and energy required to get the latest electronic gadgets out to market quickly enough. It's not just cheap labor alone.

Not yet. Why? Most of the terrorists in China are still not being sponsored. Think of Libya and Syria... where does their arms coming from.

Not yet sponsored? How about never will be? Those who (any state government) get caught sponsoring terrorists to China will not receive any trade deals in the future or the Chinese market. Libya and Syria has a weak border patrol, military, and intelligence gathering, that's why it happens to them because they're also more poor than China. Meanwhile China faces none of that so far, because as she kept vigilante and watch on her border and the current condition around it.

Yes... and why change the status quo? When China start acting all tough and hammering a country that is so much weaker militarily and economically... do you seriously think that those nations that are friendly to China would actually feel that safe?

Didn't know China was suppose to make everybody "feel safe" for their own sake. What's so important about the status quo? That's NOT the sole measurement of peace in the region. How about everybody responsible for their own defense quit accusing China of being a "bully" and such? The only ones do most of the complaining are the Vietnamese, Philippines, and Japan, meanwhile everyone else just mind their own business.

 

[Equation]

It is not a question of purely hardware; the DF-21D is an impressive achievement, but it doesn't automatically void navies. Similarly, if push come to shove, there easily could be a squadron of F22 stationed in Okinawa -> literally in a weeks time.

What Rhino is eluding to is, there are nations which can severely hamper the rise of China with their military and economy; why give them more ammunition? thats not just Japan too, the USA is also a pacific nation

小不忍则乱大谋

The US can't even deal with Iraq and Afghanistan and the people at home are already sick of war. Do you think for a second they would want to sacrifice another son and daughter to fight a far more potential deadlier enemy just to satisfy some "status quo" or treaty to keep the elite Japanese rulers safe?

Anything that is Made in China now... can it be sourced else where? as for the Chinese brains... most of them are no longer Chinese from China, they might be Chinese, but they certainly are not from China or was no longer part of China.

Their DNA is still Chinese no matter how you slice it.

I don't think that is anything to be proud of... the boston marathon bombing killed 3 and injured 264; kunming knife attack -> 29 dead, 140 injured.

The mantra really is, it doesn't matter if it is knifes or explosives, it is still deadly.

I didn't say it's anything to be proud of, what I'm saying is China doesn't have a Muslim terrorists problem or a target on their backs ALL over the world like the US does.

 

[rhino123]

You mean to tell me all this time they've been building up a navy just to show off? Plus Japan doesn't have man space program, so they're behind China on that and can't blame the US "wall" for that.



Okay, what about Mexico or India right now? And do you know why not? Because they don't have the infrastructure and the management expertise to put in thousands of workers and energy required to get the latest electronic gadgets out to market quickly enough. It's not just cheap labor alone.



Not yet sponsored? How about never will be? Those who (any state government) get caught sponsoring terrorists to China will not receive any trade deals in the future or the Chinese market. Libya and Syria has a weak border patrol, military, and intelligence gathering, that's why it happens to them because they're also more poor than China. Meanwhile China faces none of that so far, because as she kept vigilante and watch on her border and the current condition around it.




Didn't know China was suppose to make everybody "feel safe" for their own sake. What's so important about the status quo? That's NOT the sole measurement of peace in the region. How about everybody responsible for their own defense quit accusing China of being a "bully" and such? The only ones do most of the complaining are the Vietnamese, Philippines, and Japan, meanwhile everyone else just mind their own business.

All I wanted to say is...

Know who is China's main enemy.

Also... I didn't mention anything about China needing to make everybody feel safe, I think you misunderstand me. I meant, if China do take drastic action (like war or whatever) to countries like Vietnam, just to punish them for incident as small as cutting the optic cable... then what will those countries that are friendly to China actually feel? And there is a high percentage that these countries will turn their back and fall into the arms of China's enemy.

To say the truth... China is not the only country that had infrastructure to support electronic gadgets manufacturing... countries like Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia do have the expertise and infrastructure too (check some of your electronic gadget, they said "Made in Malaysia" or "Made in Indonesia" now... not sure if you have one... but I certainly had lots and I didn't asked for it.

One of the main reason is that... China is cheaper and seemed more stable then these other countries. However, when China started to 'punish' Vietnam... then she is not much better then the other two nations...

Finally... sorry, I disagree with you. But to each with his own. Like I mentioned before, it has become too close to a flame war that I am comfortable with, so I will not continue.

 

[Lezt]

The US can't even deal with Iraq and Afghanistan and the people at home are already sick of war. Do you think for a second they would want to sacrifice another son and daughter to fight a far more potential deadlier enemy just to satisfy some "status quo" or treaty to keep the elite Japanese rulers safe?

Well it depends on how the war is painted. War with China would be a very different thing than Afghanistan or Iraq -> with traditional targets to be destroyed/sunk; cities to be obliterated and armies to be destroyed.

How many war began when one underestimate the resolve of another to participate in war.

Did the American's signed terms after pearl harbor as the Japanese anticipated?

Did Britain surrender after the Blitz as Hitler have anticipated?

Did Britain and France back down from war with Germany because Hitler believe that they won't risk war in the memory of WW1?

Did Greek give an offering of earth and water as the Persian expected because the Persian army is X times larger?

Thus, you have a very good question. We will only find out when war breaks out; and we will know if the USA will honor a treaty because it is the honorable thing to do; but I won't jump to a conclusion as such.

 

[Lezt]

The better logic would be an actual official diplomatic note from the current Vietnamese govt acknowledging and respecting the territorial seas declared by China in 1958 which effectively means what pieces of land the Vietnamese acknowledge as Chinese territory. The note was not issued under the gun where China was conquering Vietnam unlike the Japanese "annexation" of Diaoyu in the midst of the First Sino Japanese War.

As much as I agree with your approach and sentiment. A diplomatic note is good ammunition but is not a treaty. Just like the ROC diplomatic note that thanked japan for saving chinese fishermen in 1920 refering to the daoyuitai as Japanese territory.

 

[port_08]

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...
"I think the best way is to allow people to protest," said La Viet Dung, a frequent anti-China protester, adding that police visited him late on May 17 asking him not to attend. "They say they are preventing people from protesting because they are worried about extremist actions and violence, but that is not logical."


They should allow the protest to continue, it's good to spread democracy and if Vietnamese government is right, they should not be afraid. Citizens must have outlets to channel their anger etc and stop the Chinese aggression. For me, Vietnam should invite like minded eg. Philippines and do join protest together, they can even invite Dalai Lama because how the China hate Dalai Lama...

 

[port_08]

As much as I agree with your approach and sentiment. A diplomatic note is good ammunition but is not a treaty. Just like the ROC diplomatic note that thanked japan for saving chinese fishermen in 1920 refering to the daoyuitai as Japanese territory.

ROC is the loser of the Chinese civil war, the communists Chinese might not think so and be so kind to Japan.

 

[port_08]

Thus, you have a very good question. We will only find out when war breaks out; and we will know if the USA will honor a treaty because it is the honorable thing to do; but I won't jump to a conclusion as such.

What if China have a treaty with Mexico? Strange, with such a large country and having hegemonic ambition, why China don't go around making treaties?