China's SCS Strategy Thread

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Apparently the deadly riots in Vietnam, and especially the trashing of factories, was not so much about the Chinese oil rig and more able Vietnamese domestic dissatisfaction. Or so the BBC says.

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16 May 2014 Last updated at 05:28 Share this pagePrint
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Vietnam-China tensions: Why protests are not just jingoism
By Bill Hayton
Author

Vietnamese protesters have targeted foreign-owned factories amid anti-China anger
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Dramatic images of Vietnamese workers vandalising Chinese-owned factories appear to be yet more proof that an angry nationalism is taking hold in East and South East Asia.

The reality is a little more complex. Although passions are certainly rising over the fate of a few specks of rock in the South China Sea, this is not simply jingoism at work.

The first clue is that those most of the "Chinese" factories that are being smashed up aren't, in fact, Chinese.

Journalists have no access to the industrial parks where the protests have been concentrated so we can only make informed guesses about what is going on and why.

However, going on the information reaching my colleagues in the BBC's Vietnamese Service, the riots tell us more about the conditions inside those factories than about geopolitics.

This is not to deny that many Vietnamese are livid about China's attempt to drill for oil in waters claimed by Vietnam. There were angry protests about the issue outside the Chinese embassy in Hanoi and its consulate in Ho Chi Minh City over the weekend.

These were the usual small affairs and they were tolerated by the government. That tolerance can be explained by the ruling Communist Party's need to impress two audiences: its own people and its foreign sparring partners.

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What we are witnessing in Vietnam is an inchoate sense of anger - partly against China but more urgently against bad employers”

The Communist Party of Vietnam is an intelligent organisation. It knows that there is widespread anger about China's moves in the South China Sea (or the East Sea as it is known in Vietnam).

It also knows that its critics, particularly overseas-based anti-communists, accuse it of kowtowing to China. If it cracks down too hard on "patriotic" demonstrators, the party will be accused of betraying the national interest.

It also knows that its negotiating position with China will be much stronger if it can prove that the domestic cost of making compromises will be too great.

This is the usual explanation for instances of anti-China demonstrations in Vietnam (and, not coincidentally, also of anti-Japan protests in China).

The party is furious about China's installation of an oil rig near the Paracel Islands. A bit of street action helps to bolster its position in dealings with its brother communists in Beijing and allows hotheads to let off a bit of steam.

'Invaders'
However, the scale and extent of the vandalism and rioting that we have seen in the past few days is something new and shocking. It has a different explanation.


Worker grievances are a factor in these protests, which erupted earlier this week
There are several accounts of what triggered the rioting. Some say it began at an officially-sanctioned protest that got out of hand. Others have suggested that an American-based organisation of anti-Communist Vietnamese exiles, Viet Tan, may have played a role.

Both may be true but neither would explain why the protests became so large and so violent so quickly. There are other factors at work.

Thomas Jandl is an expert on Vietnam, based at American University in Washington DC. He points to the growing discontent among Vietnam's rapidly-growing industrial workforce.

"Riots can easily start over minor issues that then get conflated with others. These are factory workers, not political science or history scholars. They have 'Chinese' overseers, they feel that these people are not nice to them and now they - or someone like them - is invading the country," he says.

Over the past few years there have been dozens of strikes at foreign-owned plants in Vietnam. Complaints about low pay, bad workplace conditions (poor canteen food, limits on using the toilet and so on) and bullying management have triggered disputes.

These complaints have focused on plants owned by Taiwanese and Korean companies in particular. However, Thai and Singaporean plants have also been affected.

Perfect storm?
To these traditional complaints, a major new one has been added. Some factories, particularly Taiwanese-owned plants have been employing Chinese workers in favour of local Vietnamese.


Many of the factories targeted have been owned by companies that are not Chinese
This appears to have been the trigger for the trouble in the central province of Ha Tinh, in which one Chinese person was killed and 90 others injured.

What we are witnessing in Vietnam is an inchoate sense of anger - partly against China but more urgently against bad employers. This is a nightmare scenario for the Communist Party of Vietnam.

It will be easy for protestors to paint it as betraying the national interest out in the South China Sea (by failing to stand up strongly enough to China) and weak at home for failing to ensure that foreign companies treat their workers fairly.

Add in a myriad of other personal and local grievances and a wrong move could stir up a perfect storm of anti-"system" protest.

The party has the means to put hundreds of thousands of security personnel on the streets within hours if the threat to its rule becomes significant. However that would be a last resort for an organisation that claims to be the living embodiment of the people's will.

The ramifications of the decisions the party takes in the next few days will be felt for some time.

Bill Hayton, who works for BBC Media Action, is the author of Vietnam: rising dragon (Yale 2010) and The South China Sea and the struggle for power in Asia, to be published by Yale in September.

I don't know much about the situation on the ground in Vietnam, so I'm not yet sure whether this is insight or spin. But judging by the headlines and tone of other BBC articles on the subject, I'm leaning more on spin since it seems like a concerted effort to downplay the ugliness and racial element in these events and try and paint them as something more benign to western pallets. But by all means make your own minds up.
 

port_08

Junior Member
Mix of issues? Arab spring comes to mind but Vietnam economic is booming, there's shouldn't be a Bouzizi moment due unemployment so bad people takes to riot. Is it Tianamensquared like moment where people clamor for more freedom democratization, and I think Vietnam is very freedom now and their CCP having grip on power not easily challenged. Still I think the oil rig protest is government sanction protest , it's organized demo but sometimes things just goes out of control. We're not sure how large the government will allow them once sentiment whip up or it will be cool down, depends on their state and foreign back media feeding the news as there will always be anti China faction feeding rumors, so call information warfare. China at the moment still drilling, so if the news keep playing, building the anger via propaganda, bigger rioting against China will happen. Conflict will sooner or later happen because of the oil rig. I bet Vietnam will sent some armed vessels to start shooting at the rig, it could be possible and some skirmishes. I think will be soon because, many behind the scenes to push such conflict in place. The hawks in anti China faction is preparing, so call prepping the public mind to build a case against for eg. the Iraqis or Syrian like situation to justify means for arm intervention. China might not be looking for trouble, but rest assured trouble will find China, this is reality in anywhere you go.
 

port_08

Junior Member
Given the PRC's own continental constuction programs it's highly logical that they have a rapid turn around for there own personal "monster island."

So call frontier lookout. I believe most others having their outpost as well, I really loves the Philippine idea of using and old ship ran aground as base. Very creative and low cost.
 

joshuatree

Captain

2012-03-mabini.jpg





Not sure if the caption is right that there was no structure in 2012. Found a link of some older pics at that location and there were structures back then too.

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SteelBird

Colonel
That's really up to Vietnam on the next response. However, if they choose not to compensate, it would seriously erode investor confidence in that country knowing their capital can evaporate overnight when unexpected events occur.

If they opt for selective compensation such as compensating South Korean and Japanese companies but not Chinese and Taiwanese companies, then they are setting up for economic retaliation such as prohibiting Vietnamese goods from being imported to China and Taiwan, even being specific to the point that even Korean brand and Japanese brands made in Vietnam getting banned in the Chinese/Taiwanese markets which would make South Korean and Japanese companies think twice of where to set up production in SEA, maybe Thailand instead, etc etc.

There were national wide looting after the clash between the CPP and FUNCINPEC on 5th - 6th July 1997. The government agreed to compensate; however, they didn't have enough cash to do so. Tax reduction/exemption were the mean to compensate. I think the Vietnamese government might adopt the same method. The Vietnamese government will eventually compensate, and all foreign firms being looted will be compensate. The Vietnamese government is not as crazy as those looters. This is something I still believe in the Vietnamese government. Trust me, the Vietnamese government is wiser than Aquino's government and do not trust Uncle Sam as Aquino's do.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Apparently the deadly riots in Vietnam, and especially the trashing of factories, was not so much about the Chinese oil rig and more able Vietnamese domestic dissatisfaction. Or so the BBC says.

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I don't know much about the situation on the ground in Vietnam, so I'm not yet sure whether this is insight or spin. But judging by the headlines and tone of other BBC articles on the subject, I'm leaning more on spin since it seems like a concerted effort to downplay the ugliness and racial element in these events and try and paint them as something more benign to western pallets. But by all means make your own minds up.

Probably both but I think there's some truth to it. Recently there were some incidents with Korean bosses if I recall correctly. When I hear they were attacking not just Chinese, I said they couldn't be that dumb to scare FDI like that. But you haven't heard of Western companies being attacked so this could a good case they hate anyone Asian because of the notorious Asian inferiority complex. They just hate Chinese more not only. But then just like mostly everything else produced, Western companies hire these Asian companies that go into places like Vietnam to have their products made.
 

texx1

Junior Member
According to Chinese Weibo, PLA has been deployed to Pingxiang (凭祥市), Guangxi, a city on the border of Vietnam. Let's hope this is nothing more than sabre rattling.

Here is google map of Pingxiang city's location.

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Here are some pictures of PLA marching in and around Pingxiang. They are probably cellphone pictures so resolutions are not so good

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A.Man

Major
The United States needs to know that China always has more than 1000 km border with Vietnam. The Supercarrier Reagon still can not alter the very fact-Americans come and go, Vietnamese still have to deal with China themself. The US push will mislead Vietnam to miscalculate. Ukrain was pushed to disaster by the Uncle Sam. Philippines is pushed to gamble with China. Japan is pushed to the corner while the US did not get TTP.
 
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Brumby

Major
The United States needs to know that China has always more 1000 km border with Vietnam. The Supercarrier Reagon still can not alter the very fact-Americans come and go, Vietnamese still have to deal with China themself. The US push will mislead Vietnam to miscalculate. Ukrain was pushed to disaster by the Uncle Sam. Philippines is pushed to gamble with China. Japan is pushed to the corner while the US did not get TTP.

In politics, countries attempting to seek alliance is as old as the history of mankind. Like individuals, countries weigh their decisions and actions because there are consequences and inherent with that responsibilities. Blaming the US for their actions are in my view either misdirected or misguided.
 
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