China won Turkey's missile defense competition

weig2000 said:

Some more details on the testing performance of the competing systems.

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"Bayar said a delegation of Turkish industry and air force officials had witnessed test launches from all the firms but that the Chinese had allowed Turkey to pick its own scenario and offered it a tailored demonstration.

"We said we want this kind of a launch, and our delegation watched the launches as if they were the operators. These were real launches," Bayar said."

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Looks like a done deal. There's no way Raytheon would match the Chinese price as well as transfer technology in order to force a change in the contract.

That's what China is probably going to have to do to win contracts. They might have to sell the J-31 cheap at first just to get it out there in foreign militaries. Glad to hear the test was according to what Turkey wanted to see.

All this talk of integration issues is just sour grapes from the usual western 'experts' who seem to know next to nothing insightful about Chinese defence firms and their products but who still insist on droning on about the same old outdated cliches like a broken record.

What, do they think the Turks are idiots to not have considered integration and how the FD2000 would function as part of their defensive architecture before awarding the contract?

If China and Turkey did not already have a detailed and workable blueprint about how to integrate the FD2000 into Turkey's existing and future planned AD network, the FD2000 would not have come close to winning the contract.

This is a devastating blow to the Russians. Before they are saying that China wants S-400 !! Well how is it going now ??

Also, after this deal Kanwa's Pinkov say that the Su-35 deal is far from being signed, China does not want the Su-35 !!!

Some HQ-9 & FD-2000 pictures...


Good morning Monday...

More HQ-9 and FD-2000 pictures...

plawolf said:

All this talk of integration issues is just sour grapes from the usual western 'experts' who seem to know next to nothing insightful about Chinese defence firms and their products but who still insist on droning on about the same old outdated cliches like a broken record.

What, do they think the Turks are idiots to not have considered integration and how the FD2000 would function as part of their defensive architecture before awarding the contract?

If China and Turkey did not already have a detailed and workable blueprint about how to integrate the FD2000 into Turkey's existing and future planned AD network, the FD2000 would not have come close to winning the contract.

Click to expand...

Agree with you on this...

According to this article: also known as the "Wise Men Center for Strategic Studies"; its comments that there are several underlying factors that caused Turkey to favour the FD-2000. I could loosely translate the article in Chinese to English.

Firstly, when asked why Turkey has decided on FD-2000, he comments that this SAM system could destroy any unidenfited missile that couldnt be identifed by conventional radar; unlike the Patroit missiles and S-300 from USA and Russia respectivity.

Subsequently, from a broad perspective, it is due to political reasons. When the Turkish govt tried to purchase similar syatem in the past, it was rejected by the US congress. Then came another rejection from the US congress when Turkey tried to purchase the "Predator" UAV. Hence, this time round the Turkish govt wants a system from another country in order to avoid "similar consequences" by the US congress. With the choice selected for FD-2000, the Turkish govt needs not wait for US congress as a result.

Financially there are 2 factors in choosing the system: First and foremost, the FD-2000 is more economically fisable for the Turkish govt. Secondly, the Chinese manufacturers gave the "Tech transfer" advantage to the host nation. About 40% of the system would be developed in Turkey with Turkish companies. These Turkish companies could learn and accumulate experiences from the technologies of launching statallites; thus reducing the reliance of some other nations.

When asked by reporters whether or not HQ-9 could statisify Turkish needs, Prof Atilla replies the HQ-9 system could hold Turkey's airshow. If western system were to be chosen, should there be a conflict between Isasel and Turkey, NATO could stop its NATO supplied air defence system; hence it is vital for Turkey to develop its own system according to its own specifications within limits.

The article also says the west is very annoyed with Turkish decision. US-led NATO raised its objections by stating the Chinese system could not be intergreted into NATO system with the fear of data hacking by the Chinese systems. However, the Turkish authorities could prevent this from happening by developing neccessary anti-hacking software as a prevention. Another US raised problem is that China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corp. (CPMEIC) was sanctioned by US congress for exporting arms to N Korea and Iran etc nation which USA regarded as "renegrade nations". This sanction only applies to the other nations but not Turkey. The sanction does not prevent Turkey from purchasing air defense system from China.

The article ends by Atilla stating that Turkey still have the decision rights before any agreement is signed.

FarkTypeSoldier said:

Firstly, when asked why Turkey has decided on FD-2000, he comments that this SAM system could destroy any unidenfited missile that couldnt be identifed by conventional radar; unlike the Patroit missiles and S-300 from USA and Russia respectivity.

.

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Interesting. I interpret this to mean the American and Russian packages offered to turkey does not include total access to critical components controlling whether any engagement can proceed, where as the Chinese promised the Turkish open access to these same components in the FD-2000

There were prior examples of this type of restrictions on western missiles, sometimes imposed secretly without the customer knowing. For example during the first 1st gulf war, it was reported that Baghdad's elaborate and costly French built SAM defenses were program to refuse to engage aircraft with NATO identification. This came as a nasty surprise to Iraq and Iraq was never able to completely circumvent the restriction during the entire 50 day hostility.

It appears the turks wants to let it be known that not having the option to act independently against the interests and wishes of the US, NATO or Russia is intolerable. So the Chinese missile might have been chosen because china is sufficiently far away from turkey that china would not mind letting the Turks shoot at whoever they want.

chuck731 said:

There were prior examples of this type of restrictions on western missiles, sometimes imposed secretly without the customer knowing. For example during the first 1st gulf war, it was reported that Baghdad's elaborate and costly French built SAM defenses were program to refuse to engage aircraft with NATO identification. This came as a nasty surprise to Iraq and Iraq was never able to completely circumvent the restriction during the entire 50 day hostility.

It appears the turks wants to let it be known that not having the option to act independently against the interests and wishes of the US, NATO or Russia is intolerable. So the Chinese missile might have been chosen because china is sufficiently far away from turkey that china would not mind letting the Turks shoot at whoever they want.

Click to expand...

Pretty much sums up why the Turks favour the FD-2000, sufficient and not costly! Also with the joint development, Turkey could have its own system with this experience of joint venture after one generation of system upgrade down the road.

This deal is big but the biggest arms deal in Chinese history is the 50 DF-3 ballistic missiles that were sold to Saudi Arabia in 1986 estimated price tag was excess of $3 billion

IRBM bases were built in the desert one of them is the Al Sulayyail IRBM Missile base