China Navy Power

Next step in this analysis of PLAN in 2012 is their aerial assets.
First of all, naval helicopter was mentionned several times before, so I don't think I need to continue to state the hopeless of the situation until at least 2015. Of course, the best possible scenario is if PLAN got NH-90, but unless EU embargo gets lifted, that's not going to happen. Currently, China has 20 Ka-31 and 40 Ka-29 on order. I'm guessing there will be more ka-28 purchased in the future as well. And Z-9 will have to carry the brunt for a while.

Next part is the land-based aerial assets. Currently, they have 3 JH-7 and 1 su-30mk2 regiments in all of planaf and several regiments of J-8II, but it's generally pretty archaic with old H-5, H-6, Q-5 and J-7s. Ideally, I'm hoping for 3 more JH-7A regiments + 2 H-6K regiments in the next 5 years for planaf for strike missions, but I doubt XAC can produce 5 regiments for planaf alone when JH-7A is still ordered by planaf. So, what I think will end up happen is that they will probably get 2 more JH-7A + 1 H-6K regiment to replace some of the Q-5 regiments and old H-5/6 regiments. On top of that, they will get probably 2 J-10 regiments (1 in ESF and 1 in SSF) and a Su-33/J-11C regiment in NSF to train on Varyag. Preferably, I'm also hoping for a J-11BS regiment in planaf, because even though su-30mk2 matches all of planaf requirements in terms of payload, range and maneuverability, J-11BS will mostly represent a significant improvement in capability when it comes into service with far more modern avionics and more capable missiles in the form of YJ-83, YJ-91 and possibly DH-10 (or whatever we saw that was on H-6K).

So in terms of bombers and fighters, I'm looking for the following:
2 regiments of JH-7A
1 regiment of H-6K
2 regiments of J-10
1 regiment of Su-33/indigenous naval flanker
1 regiment of J-11BS

Another area to look at are the surveillence platforms, they currently have around 3+ Y-8 MPA, 2+ Y-8J, 1 Y-8 Elint and possibly 1 Y-8 battlefield surveillence. There is also the much rumoured Y-8 ASW version. KJ-200 is the one that is suppose to equip the navy, so I do predict around 5 to 10 KJ-200 joining planaf + 5 to 10 Y-8s of other variants.
Also, we know about the 15 Be-200 on order from the Russians.

Finally, we can take a look at the carrier program. In terms of AEW, Varyag and future carriers will be equipped with numerous ka-31, but the future carriers with catapults are likely to carry 2 to 4 Y-7 AEW. Granted, Y-7 AEW isn't ready yet, but having seen China's recent AEW development, it appears that having an Y-7 based AEW isn't a problem. The question is whether they can get Y-7 to take off from a carrier. For ASW/SAR, they will need to carry a number of ka-28/Z-9C until more capable helicopters are available. Clearly, the lack of naval helicopter is also a major concern here.

As for the naval helicopter, it's clear that they will start off with a small number of su-33 and possibly get some su-30mkk for training. The next step is the indigenous naval fighter. From what I gathered, imported su-33 is not the answer for future carriers. China is only signed up for a couple of su-33s for testing/evaluation. What I think will happen (and probably is already happening) is a competition between SAC and CAC for the naval fighter contract with SAC developing J-11C which is a relatively safe path, similar in layout to su-33, but using indigenous avionics and weapon system. The other more radical path is the twin-engined J-10. I know CAC has a program for this, but not sure if it's supposed to be carrier capable. Either way, this will be the far more advanced design with some stealthy features + superior maneuverability.

So in my opinion, aviation wing of PLAN is the part that's the furthest behind. Due to various reasons, China just doesn't have enough naval helicopters. The naval fighter/AEW projects status are not really known. Looking at when the 5th generation fighter for PLAAF is slated to come in and how the other AEW projects have progressed, that those projects are going to at least have prototypes by 2012. And also, the continual loosing battle with plaaf for new fighters will leave planaf with a still relatively archaic force by 2012.

I would just like to interject my personal thesis about the 093 and 095 classes. It seems to me that the 093 becomes redundant once the 095 is around. Would it not make sense then that the 093 was a testbed for modern SSN development and design? It hasn't even been made public and already a successor class has appeared. Instinct tells me that the 093 doesn't have a future, that the 095 is born of the lessons learned from the 093.

Finn McCool said:

I would just like to interject my personal thesis about the 093 and 095 classes. It seems to me that the 093 becomes redundant once the 095 is around. Would it not make sense then that the 093 was a testbed for modern SSN development and design? It hasn't even been made public and already a successor class has appeared. Instinct tells me that the 093 doesn't have a future, that the 095 is born of the lessons learned from the 093.

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Yeah, I think so too. The problem in my opinion is that 093 is at least 2 generations behind Virgina/Seawolf. I don't expect 095 to match Virginia in terms of accoustic performance, but it should be at least equal if not better than Improved LA class and Improved Akula class.

Final thing I'd like to look at is the general naval weapon systems.

First surface to air missiles:
For short ranged, China pretty much uses HH-7 right now. After the recent upgrades, it looks comparable in many areas to some of the modern missiles like Crotale VT1, RAM and Barak. However, what I think will happen and would like to see is a compact VLS version developed like Barak. This would allow ships like 054A and 052C to equip 16 to 32 cells for short ranged defence.
From medium and long range, I think they've already achieved some where with HH-9 and HH-16. They just need to continue improving on the design with more compact, faster reacting VLS and improved missile.
I would like to see a common VLS that can equip all 3, but the important part is to have HH-7 (or some future SR SAM) on both 052C and 054A.

Second, CIWS.
I think they have finally got the CIWS they want with Type 730. This will be the main CIWS of the future for PLAN. Provides execellent point defense. The one major improved system I can see is with a metal storm type of gun for CIWS. I think China is still quite a bit away from the laser defense systems mentionned for American Navy.

Third, main gun.
This is another area that they seemed to have settled on with 100 mm gun and 76 mm gun. One is more for anti-surface and the other more for air defense. They can continue to improve on this technology.

Fourth, Anti ship missile/LACM
This seems to be a strong point of PLAN with YJ-83 and YJ-62. There has been a recent rumour that China has developed something similar to Onik, but slight lighter and faster. While this is not out, I do expect China to have a project like this in the works. Other things that China is working on probably include the much talked about anti-ship ballistic missile and anti-shipping functionality added onto HH-9 and HH-16 (if they don't already have them). Finally, as we have seen with other navies, I think it's time for PLAN to have a common VLS for anti-ship missile , LACMs and ASW missile. So possibly, something that can launch DH-10 and YJ-63 or something that can launch YJ-83 and ship version of KD-88.

Fifth, torpedo
This seems to be an area of mess for PLAN. Yu-7 has become the standard 324 mm torpedo for helicopters and ships. There however has been some recent reports that its endeavors with heavy 533 mm torpedo like Yu-4G and Yu-6 have not resulted in much success. Unless they want to continue using Test-71 and 53-65KE (which are getting old), they really need advancement in this area.

Sixth, radar
For DDG,
I think China needs something like S1850M that they can put on the aft mast of 052C/D, instead of that really ugly meter metric radar. Which they claim to use for anti-stealth reasons. It could just be an enlarged version of Sea Eagle/top plate type of radar that they have on 051C/054A. I assume the SR-64 will remain as the surface search/low flying target search radar.
For FFG,
The need for a MFR - they should probably get something like Sampson/EMPAR on top of the forward mast. The high position would give that radar the ability to do surface search + search against low-flying target. That can also give mid course guidance command to HH-16. The Orekh clones could improve by improving tracking range, better resolution + possibly more channels?
Surface search.
SR-64 + MFR for targets with sight. For OTH surface acquisition, they seem to have settled on the Chinese copy of bandstand + light bulb combination.

Seventh, sonar
Doesn't seem at the moment that PLAN is too interested in equipping TAS on surface ships.

Eighth, propulsion.
As mentionned before, continual development of QC-70, QC-185 and QC-260.
It would be interesting to see if they will have any progress in electric propulsion or nuclear propulsion.


I mentionned many things, but I think much of what I mentionned are achievable based on what they have done in the past 5 years. Areas they've improved on the most is AAW in the recent years and the area they need the most work on is ASW. They have no ship based LACM as we speak, but with the appearance of air launched YJ-62/DH-10 and induction of KD-88, it seems like ship based LACM is around the corner. And amphibious assault has taken a step in the right direction with the induction of type 071 and purchase of Zubrs. On top of that, the most important part is probably whether or not the PLAN sailors can learn to use these new equipments.

I'm wondering what is the true separation when ships are placed into different "fleets". Seems to me it's mainly a peace time basing, logistics, and doctrine distinction. For example South Sea Fleet will study its southern missions and train for those. However during wartime it will get to use ships from all 3 fleets.

I'd like to see the PLAN acquire something similar to the ~1,250 ton Russian Corvette design on page 52 in this export catalog:


IMO it'd make a great ASW fleet escort. (edit: for costal waters )

1,400 tonner for fleet escort??? You must mean inshore coastal escort or coastal defence ASW asset....Fleet escort role would need endurance, sea keeping and strength that small corvettes just cannot provide.

a great fleet ASW escort asset for china would be Udaloy (with modern armament offcourse) class large ASW ships, that are IMHO best ASW ships that china could ever posess.
Or even Neustrahimyy's set in true long durance escort ship. Type 054B???

But little gnat like the mentioned should be also good for china, but for totally different work, to act as Guard Ships to replace the old missile boats and small ASW launches. With two definate versions ofcourse, one for ASW, and one for strike.

中国增购的俄“现代”级驱逐舰将大幅改装

今年三月，中国与俄国高级军事工业界代表团举行了两国恢复友好关系以来最大一次的军事采购会议。俄罗方面收到了来自中国的庞大武器定购、技术转移要求申请。其中海军占了很大的比例。中国海军已提出将追加购入“现代”级驱逐舰４～６艘、Ｋ级６３６型常规潜艇４艘、并要求俄罗斯提供“拉达”级潜艇的详细资料，保留４艘艇的购入权以及其它一些海军装备（包括导弹、鱼雷、火控系统等）。以上装备同时提出转移其技术和生产许可的要求。至于外界盛传的ＡＫＵＬＡ核动力攻击潜艇这次并未在谈判中涉及到，这显示出中国在核心武器装备方面仍将以自己研制生产为主。此次中方提出的购入计划十分庞大，显示出中国已非常重视海军的发展，中国海军已经意识到与日本和美国海军的差距，并正在努力缩短这种差距。而短期目标正是日本海上自卫队。

　　特别应该值得注意的是中国这次购入的“现代”级驱逐舰与第一次购入的驱逐舰有着重大的区别，中国已要求对“现代”级驱逐舰进行全面的、大规模的改装，并且改装将建立在“现代”９５６Ｂ的基础之上，以超过或达到与“金刚”级宙斯盾驱逐舰相当的作战能力。并且有确实能威慑到美国航母的能力，这应该是为台海问题做准备。由于改进幅度相当大，俄罗斯一开始并未同意中方这一要求，但后来由于俄罗斯国内海军连续几年都没有购舰计划，使得船厂开工严重不足，难以为继。因此为保证数万人的就业机会以及工厂的生产技术能力不被严重削弱，同时中国提出货款将以硬通货为主。所以最后还是同意了中国的要求。据悉，中国方面对现代级提出如下改良计划：
1、拆除舰尾１３０舰炮，拆除ＳＳ－Ｎ－２２导弹发射架、拆除ＡＫ６３０舰炮、拆除ＳＡ－Ｎ－７导弹发射架、更新火控、雷达以及电子战系统。
2、在舰尾１３０舰炮位置处安装两座６联装射程为３００公里的第二代远程ＹＡＫＨＯＮＴ（宝石）超音速舰对舰导弹垂直发射装置，同时引进该型导弹的空射型。而由于ＳＳ－Ｎ－２２体积过于庞大，因此引进主要是为了建立先进的岸基反舰系统。这是否意味着中国将放弃国产的Ｃ－１０１、Ｃ－３１０超音速反舰导弹系统？
3、在原ＡＫ６３０速射炮的位置将安装４座“卡什坦”弹炮一体的近程防御系统。
4、在原ＳＡ－Ｎ－７发射位置处安装两套新型对空导弹垂直发射系统。每套发射系统有４个八联装垂直发射装置，发射装置为典型的俄制“左轮”式垂直发射装置。整个对空系统拥有６４枚对空导弹。对空导弹将采用新型的射程为１２０公里的９Ｍ９６Ｅ２导弹，此种导弹也是陆基Ｓ－３００ＰＭＵ２和Ｓ－４００的对空导弹。 采用这种导弹对中国来说具有重大的意义。一方面，中国的陆基Ｓ－３００ＰＭＵ１将改进到Ｓ－３００ＰＭＵ２规格，导弹也必然随之改进，中国已确定Ｓ－３００ＰＭＵ２在防空作战方面将以９Ｍ９６Ｅ２和射程４０公里的９Ｍ９６Ｅ为主，分别负责远距和中距的防空任务，而建立中国初步的ＴＭＤ则交由射程为２０００公里的４８Ｎ６Ｅ２导弹负责。另一方面，由于９Ｍ９６Ｅ、９Ｍ９６Ｅ２这两种导弹的体积小，性能高，射程远，中国海军极有可能将它们做为中国国产大型驱逐舰的垂直对空导弹系统，特别是射程为４０公里的９Ｍ９６Ｅ，这种导弹比中国的ＫＳ对空导弹小得多，而射程和性能又较ＫＳ更为领先，是作为中程防空导弹的理想选择。这将极大的增强中国海军的防空作战能力。同时也将简化中国军队的后勤保障。

　　经过改进的“现代”级作战能力将大幅上升，除反潜能力仍较金刚级差外，其防空和反舰能力均大幅领先于“金刚”级，并且价格上相对于金刚级是十分便宜的。按照这次中俄签定的协议看，中国将最终引进８艘“现代”化的现代级驱逐舰，当后继的６艘服役后，最初的两艘也将由中国自行改进为与后继舰一样的型号。中国海军似乎准备将“现代”级分别做为四大舰队的旗舰，辅以国产的大型驱逐舰和大型护卫舰组成类似于日本８８（９、１０？）舰队的远洋型海军舰队。如果这一计划成为现实，中国海军将对日本海上自卫队和驻日美军第七舰队产生严重的威胁。

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This is an interesting article I just come across. A little summary:

During a miliary meeting between China and Russia, the PLAN proposed a deal that would introduce 4-6 new Sovremenny Class destroyer, 4 new Kilo to the PLAN. And the Chinese asked Russian to provide some info on the new Russian Subs. The new Sovremenny will have to under gone some major modifications:
1- remove the tail gun, the launcher for the SS-N-22 and SS-N-7
2- place 2X6 P-800 Oniks(Yakhont) over the tail gun,
3-replace the AK-630 with 3K95 "Kinzhal"
4- add a 4X8 launcher for ９Ｍ９６Ｅ２
It is not from any official news agencies, so not much of a credibility, but that does seems like a nice addition to the Chinese navy if they actually goes through the deal, esp with the Sovremenny. Indians just tested their new PJ-10 BrahMos. But I am just not sure if its is cost effective through?

optionsss said:

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This is an interesting article I just come across. A little summary:

During a miliary meeting between China and Russia, the PLAN proposed a deal that would introduce 4-6 new Sovremenny Class destroyer, 4 new Kilo to the PLAN. And the Chinese asked Russian to provide some info on the new Russian Subs. The new Sovremenny will have to under gone some major modifications:
1- remove the tail gun, the launcher for the SS-N-22 and SS-N-7
2- place 2X6 P-800 Oniks(Yakhont) over the tail gun,
3-replace the AK-630 with 3K95 "Kinzhal"
4- add a 4X8 launcher for ９Ｍ９６Ｅ２
It is not from any official news agencies, so not much of a credibility, but that does seems like a nice addition to the Chinese navy if they actually goes through the deal, esp with the Sovremenny. Indians just tested their new PJ-10 BrahMos. But I am just not sure if its is cost effective through?

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No where in there did it say replacing ak-630 with kinzhal, it said replacing each AK-630 with a Kashtan.
The entire idea has no appeal to me. Even if you have improved Antiship missile and SAM, it still doesn't conceal the fact that Sov is an outdated design using steam turbine and have absolutely no concept of RCS reduction. On top of that, you are getting Russian built ships (lack of workmanship and reliability comes to mind right away). And also, do you really want anymore 6500+ tonne destroyer with no long range air defense. Yes, I'm very sceptical about the 120 km claim for 9M96E2.

tphuang, I really enjoy reading your information. I have a couple of questions. First, in what capacity will the YJ-91 AshMs be used and two, whatever happened to that fancy LACM with side intakes?

a new version of HQ-7 that's not FM-90?

pray tell.