China ICBM/SLBM, nuclear arms thread

[FairAndUnbiased]

What about those meant for storage and stockpiling? Could there be unintentional mishaps (maybe not deliberate water fillings, but mishaps like forgetting to replace the testing fuel with real propellants). Relating this to the article, maybe it is just a few rockets in storage being neglected like that, but Bloomberg and whoever provided the story decided to greatly exaggerate it?

I don't know how rockets are stored but spaceflight hardware such as electronics and cameras are stored in clean rooms, packaged in particle free low outgassing packaging, and have standards for cleanliness and outgassing such as ASTM E595.

If liquid rockets are stored similarly to any other space flight rated hardware then they're stored completely empty with the inlet and outlet ports blocked off by covers to prevent dust and damage.

 

[tokenanalyst]

What about those meant for storage and stockpiling? Could there be unintentional mishaps (maybe not deliberate water fillings, but mishaps like forgetting to replace the testing fuel with real propellants). Relating this to the article, maybe it is just a few rockets in storage being neglected like that, but Bloomberg and whoever provided the story decided to greatly exaggerate it?

The problem is as always Bloomberg has not presented ANY factual evidence on what they are reporting with the exception of their garbage "unnamed source", I have not found ANY US military news site reporting on this stuff. They cite that they expelled rocket forces officials but these guys could have been expelled for any reason, including any sort of misconduct outside the military,

 

[PiSigma]

So in case anyone don't know, pressure vessels and piping need to be pressure tested before using or after maintenance.

The most common way to pressure test is hydrotesting to 1.5x the design pressure of said vessel. As you can see from the name hydrotesting means using water to pressure up the pipe and vessel. Hold the pressure for awhile then look for leaks. Drain out the water and then fill with whatever you need to.

This is normal industry practice that the military probably also follows. Because a water leak is better than rocket fuel leak.

So yes Chinese rockets got filled with water... Maybe. But also got drained later.

 

[Kalec]

Now they are hyping the idea that China is going to nuke testing ( critical or sub-critical?) again.

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I forget whether I have posted this news yet, but yea it is a significant discovery IF true.

The shaft is usually for large-yield nuke test, in the other words, the complete nuclear package test instead of just primary. The primary, is usually tested in a tunnel, which they are building as well.

And for the water rocket part, I hope ppl should stop taking it seriously. It could be true but it doesn't really matter. I don't put good faith in US intelligence unless it is leaked.

1. China launch dozens of CZ-2/3 series rocket every year and they are basically DF-5s with strap-on boosters or an additional upper stage. If they are all successful in launch, I see no reason I would lose faith in DF-5 reliability.

2. PBV doesn't work in the way arm control nerd pretends it is. PBV are fueled and sealed in the factory, and it is not worth to replace the fuel with water, either. You can steal around 450t of fuel out of CZ-3B and for PBV each one of them only comes with 1-2t fuel. It is like the embezzelement you put the risk is not even worth buy a pair of shoe.

3. No one does corruption on stealing N2O4/UDMH. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Yes you can have kickback money from not fueling with N2O4 but hundreds of people would notice and imagine the money you have to spend on shutting their mouths. The fuel comes at around $6000 USD per ton it means the maximum you could make is around $1M USD per ICBM and still have to share it with hundreds of personnel, meanwhile got caught then a shot in the head. The risk-return ratio is so terrible that no one would do that unless they are retarded.

Tl;dr The whole idea makes zero sense. And it is published not leaked, I don't have very good faith in US intelligence unless it is leaked/accidentally revealed/forced to present in a court file.

 

[pevade]

I forget whether I have posted this news yet, but yea it is a significant discovery IF true.

The shaft is usually for large-yield nuke test, in the other words, the complete nuclear package test instead of just primary. The primary, is usually tested in a tunnel, which they are building as well.

And for the water rocket part, I hope ppl should stop taking it seriously. It could be true but it doesn't really matter. I don't put good faith in US intelligence unless it is leaked.

1. China launch dozens of CZ-2/3 series rocket every year and they are basically DF-5s with strap-on boosters or an additional upper stage. If they are all successful in launch, I see no reason I would lose faith in DF-5 reliability.

2. PBV doesn't work in the way arm control nerd pretends it is. PBV are fueled and sealed in the factory, and it is not worth to replace the fuel with water, either. You can steal around 450t of fuel out of CZ-3B and for PBV each one of them only comes with 1-2t fuel. It is like the embezzelement you put the risk is not even worth buy a pair of shoe.

3. No one does corruption on stealing N2O4/UDMH. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Yes you can have kickback money from not fueling with N2O4 but hundreds of people would notice and imagine the money you have to spend on shutting their mouths. The fuel comes at around $6000 USD per ton it means the maximum you could make is around $1M USD per ICBM and still have to share it with hundreds of personnel, meanwhile got caught then a shot in the head. The risk-return ratio is so terrible that no one would do that unless they are retarded.

Tl;dr The whole idea makes zero sense. And it is published not leaked, I don't have very good faith in US intelligence unless it is leaked/accidentally revealed/forced to present in a court file.

Not to mention how the heck are you gonna transport UDMH which is toxic. Not to mention who the heck is gonna buy that stuff?

Shady backalley dealer: Hey bud wanna buy some UDMH and N2O4? Its pretty cheap just 700USD per ton.

 

[Blitzo]

... Why are we now posting RFA articles which are even more rubbish than the original Bloomberg one?

Stop posting this rubbish. I don't care if you're trying to be ironic.

Posts deleted.

 

[Blitzo]

I want to reiterate to people, to anyone who is tempted to post another article which is related to that Bloomberg story.

Unless you have an article which has any sort of concrete evidence or information which is new, then there is no need to post articles just adds silliness to the entire discussion which has already been had. It doesn't matter if it is trying to make up more nonsensical claims or if it is trying to refute the story.

It has already been discussed to death here and no one's speculation is better than anyone else's in absence of concrete evidence (or credible rumours from our grapevine)

Ask yourself before posting a link: does this have any credible or concrete information which is new?
Ask yourself: does this constructively add anything to what has already been said?
Ask yourself: does this article need to be posted?

The above criteria might be subjective to some people, so don't be too gentle to yourself and apply some discipline. If you think you see an article which would be interesting or neat, then chances are it is not worth posting.

If you think your article has a chance to just cause another string of backwards and forwards posting without any substance, then just do everyone a favour and don't post anything.


Remember everyone. It's easy to copy and paste a link. It's difficult to write anything of substance, and it's difficult to follow up on pages of nonsense and delete them and go write some moderator posts in bolded red text.

 

[InfamousMeow]

After reading through the whole discussion clogging up several pages, I am still VERY CONFUSED by the foundations of these discussions:
1. Lids can't open.
2. Water in missiles.
3. Missile fuel for hotpot.

What are the **SOURCES** of these allegations????? PLEASE!!! SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!

 

[Nobo]

What are the **SOURCES** of these allegations????? PLEASE!!! SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!

Source of the allegations - Anonymous trust me bro -> WSJ, Bloomberg
The reason - Making their people safe after their costume boys got exposed for recruiting p--s----tes.

 

[lcloo]

It took a while but I got it, I finally got it. I got how US "intelligence" (the biggest oxymoron in the Universe) came up with an idea as ridiculous as the PLARF filling missile with water. It took so long because the depths of stupidity I had to plumb were limitless. If you're drinking anything, swallow and set the cup down now.

The monkeys translated "注水" literally.

For non Chinese speaking members, correct translation of 注水 (filled with water) in English is Adulterated. The origins of this term came from butcher/pork seller selling their meat literally injected with water in order to increase the weight so as to sell at higher price.

But..... non-human translation would be as below-