China Flanker thread

[tphuang]

they are not as large as F-15 or su-27 or F-18. typhoon and Rafale also only have a single verticle fin.

From afm by wisepanda

China Assesses New radar for Su-30 Fighters -- JDW 15 Nov. 06

*NIIP offering N-035 Irbis-E to PLAAF as potential radar upgrade from Su-30 MKK & MKK2 fighters.

*Radar can detect and track about 30 targets and engage 8 simultaneously.

*SAR mode image resolution < 1m.

*Detection against target with 3M^2 RCS is 350-400 kms.

*Using mech & elect Scanning radar has look angle of +/-185, +/- 60 in elevation and +/- 120 in azimuth.

*Su-35 can provide radars max power output requirement of 5kW. Su-30 can deliver less than half that amount.

*NIIP representatives states that PLA with either upgrade all its Su-30 with Irbis-E or some of them or buy Su-35.

*NIIP says that a radar with an active array is a definite chinese requirement for Su-30 and it might be the potential provider.

On a side note:

"Zaslon-M tech is linked to work NIIP has undertaken on Irbis-E."
Source: Russia restarts missile projects, 15th Nov. JDW06

I really wonder how it can deliver 350-400 km detection range with 5kw power output.

 

[mehdi]

15 Nov. 06 this is old how come I never saw this? So China is going for AESA, I wonder if they will also apply the same upgrade to the basic Su-27/J-11A. Has anyone here saw the news that Russian companies are going to offer an upgrade for the engines of the Su-27/J-11A?

 

[crobato]

I think it's all related with the proposed engine upgrade, and the Russians are stepping up the marketing heat. It won't be just the MKKs but the entire Su-27/J-11 fleet as well, as there are more money in that than upgrading just the MKKs.

All this probably started when China started talking about the Su-33s. You will have to decide on the engines, then radar on that plane, and then that leads to one thing, then another, then another. And then the RD-93 reexport issue, and the Russians may be forcing the Chinese to write a much larger and profitable deal than just buying two dozen Su-33s in order to convince the Russians to pass the RD-93. Then you have an impending upcoming order on the AL-31FN for the J-10s after the one delivered this year.

Its all complicated and yet related, like a soap opera.

 

[mehdi]

Hey Crobato I didn't see it this way seems way too complicated. I wonder if the Russians are not trying too hard for such poor equipments. No wonder China has decided to go solo on the J-11B. :coffee: The future will tell us. I only see China:china: buying Su-33 as for the rest let China decide what is best for her. If I sum up these projects all above the 10 billion dollar mark, could be more I guess.

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Russia negative area is not allowing China to buy its latest equipment. One China wants Russia latest equipment they say no, but one Russia develops something newer they offer China's previous requist equipment. Which by that time the equipment is old and China has no interest in it anymore. EG: Tu-22M3 (if im correct) bomber China requisted this during the 90's but Russia said no. As the aircraft became old and outdated Russia was willing to sell the aircraft but by this time China had something better planned.

 

[Kilo636]

Russia negative area is not allowing China to buy its latest equipment. One China wants Russia latest equipment they say no, but one Russia develops something newer they offer China's previous requist equipment. Which by that time the equipment is old and China has no interest in it anymore. EG: Tu-22M3 (if im correct) bomber China requisted this during the 90's but Russia said no. As the aircraft became old and outdated Russia was willing to sell the aircraft but by this time China had something better planned.

I think Russsian realise this mistake and they are trying to remedy it. Russian has say before they will offer Su-34 to PRC if they are interested. Also Russian arms sales to China after the deliver of last Sov and Kilo Subs. No major sales of arms is reported except the 38 ILyshin transport airplane..

They know they need to offer something concrete and latest to attract sales from PRC. Their R & D badly needs fund to create the next gen of weapons.

 

[Chengdu J-10]

I think Russsian realise this mistake and they are trying to remedy it. Russian has say before they will offer Su-34 to PRC if they are interested. Also Russian arms sales to China after the deliver of last Sov and Kilo Subs. No major sales of arms is reported except the 38 ILyshin transport airplane..

They know they need to offer something concrete and latest to attract sales from PRC. Their R & D badly needs fund to create the next gen of weapons.

I though that the last major sale of arms was the Su-33 not the IL-76? Though i could be wrong with this

 

[Kilo636]

I though that the last major sale of arms was the Su-33 not the IL-76? Though i could be wrong with this

Su-33 sales is not comfirm yet. But I believe it will not got through. The price of per plane is too ex.. Plus,what PRC needs is the know how to construct a plane suit for carrier ops ,not the obsolete radar tech on the plane.

But Russian wants to sqeeze whatever $$$ it can from their last truimph card on PRC. I believe the Al-31 FN bought recently by PRC are to make a carrier bound J-10
with TVC to assist take off with higher load. Plus J-10 is delta wing therefore elminate the need to make a fold wing plane to save spaces and cut down the needed technical knowledge required for a carrier ops...

The way to go will be a navalise carrier bound J-10 with TVC with jump ski carrier for PRC to kick start carrier ops....

 

[challenge]

they are not as large as F-15 or su-27 or F-18. typhoon and Rafale also only have a single verticle fin.

From afm by wisepanda

I really wonder how it can deliver 350-400 km detection range with 5kw power output.

Is Erbis-E AESA radar? PESA radar do not possess quantum leap over conventional mechanical radar.

 

[mehdi]

Su-33 too expensive for China, I don't think so cause I suspect there must be some co-production deal included. If all is true then China will be able to field more naval Flankers to equip the future Chinese carriers.