China Coast Guard and Patrol vessels

Jeff Head said:

It's a fair question.

They could need them for extremely long distance patrols or assistance with China's economic needs, or for humanitarian assistance at great distance from China and for long duration, associated with China's economic needs.

The Japanese currently have the two largest Coast Guard Cutters in the world, the latest of which, PLH 32 Akitsushima, was launched in 2012 and commissioned in 2013. She displaces something over 9,300 tons full load and is almost 500 feet long.

She is fitted with the OPS-14 2D air search radar (Japanese version of the US AN/SPS-49), two Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannons, one M61 Vulcan cannon, and two 40mm cannons. She can carry two medium sized helos in her twin hangers and has a large, oversized landing pad aft on the vessel.

These vessels were desinged specifically to be able to transit from Japan to Europe without refueling while escorting plutonium shipments, and they are also used for anti-piracy, anti-terrorism, and other missions requiring long transit times and long duration on station.

They are really large destroyer sized vessels without all of the really heavy armament.

If China has a similar need, that's what the vessels will be used for.

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Bltizo said:

Could be, but I expect patrolling the seas around hainan could be left to regular navy, even some smaller, shorter range ships.

A "cutter" of 12,000 tons only needs to be that big for reasons of endurance (long range missions), and/or contesting waters against other navy's coast guards.

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mr.bean said:

they are going to do regular runs between Tianjin and Hainan launch center because that's where the rockets are partially assembled then put onto those two Yuanwang ships to Hainan. I would think those ships would have escorts because those rockets are such important cargo but two 1000 ton coast guard ships are more than enough for the job, they don't need to use a 12000ton cutter!

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I'm hoping they build something more bold and out of the box. It shouldn't be military grade, but I like to see this 12,000 ton CG vessel be something more like the Osumi class amphibious transport dock with a ski ramp at the bow like HTMS Chakri Naruubet plus a small hospital facility on board. Any guns, CIWS, and water cannons can be mounted on the port and starboard sides of the deck. It should have anti-air radar. Before you think I'm crazy, here me out.

- It can house several helos as well maybe even a few turboprop planes for extended surveillance.
- It can provide a dock for smaller RHIBs for interdiction and boarding.
- It can serve humanitarian missions such as relief delivery or evacuation or treating the wounded.
- It can perform long range anti-piracy missions.
- It can serve as a base for SAR missions.

I think the 12k ton cutters are gonna be used for escorting merchant vessels in the Indian ocean. Doing so will free up navy ships for more useful missions

Jeff Head said:

It's a fair question.

They could need them for extremely long distance patrols or assistance with China's economic needs, or for humanitarian assistance at great distance from China and for long duration, associated with China's economic needs.

The Japanese currently have the two largest Coast Guard Cutters in the world, the latest of which, PLH 32 Akitsushima, was launched in 2012 and commissioned in 2013. She displaces something over 9,300 tons full load and is almost 500 feet long.

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I don't see China using these oversized cutters in the same manner as Japan in the way you have described their usage.
I view the need for China in doing so because of their strategic intend and how they see the South China Sea as effectively their "coast". An oversized lake needs a cutter to match. A coast guard by definition guards the coast unless your coast happens to be the South China Sea. China will need a longer endurance vessel to match their strategic vision.

joshuatree said:

I'm hoping they build something more bold and out of the box. It shouldn't be military grade, but I like to see this 12,000 ton CG vessel be something more like the Osumi class amphibious transport dock with a ski ramp at the bow like HTMS Chakri Naruubet plus a small hospital facility on board. Any guns, CIWS, and water cannons can be mounted on the port and starboard sides of the deck. It should have anti-air radar. Before you think I'm crazy, here me out.

- It can house several helos as well maybe even a few turboprop planes for extended surveillance.
- It can provide a dock for smaller RHIBs for interdiction and boarding.
- It can serve humanitarian missions such as relief delivery or evacuation or treating the wounded.
- It can perform long range anti-piracy missions.
- It can serve as a base for SAR missions.

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The Osumi "LST" is in practical terms a light LHD, which is something I believe China has needed for a while so I don't think them building one is that crazy an idea, even if for the coast guard. If they are going to build it though, then I don't see why they would not build it military grade, it would be a practice run for building a full LHD and maybe they can even share parts.

The only thing on your list that I think definitely won't happen would be the turboprop plane, they have drones these days.

The more I think about it, the more my suggestion about escort mission in the Gulf of Aden makes sense because of the following:

* The large cutters should be cheaper and easier to build/maintain/operate.

* The large size allows for greater fuel load/supplies and better creature comforts. They probably don't even need oilers to accompany them

* No need for anti-air/anti-ship/ciws to fight pirates. A 100mm gun plus a number of pop-guns are more than sufficient fire power.

* No need for powerful engines (fast speed) because you can chase down pirates easily with helicopters and/or fast attack boats attached to the cutters.

PanAsian said:

The Osumi "LST" is in practical terms a light LHD, which is something I believe China has needed for a while so I don't think them building one is that crazy an idea, even if for the coast guard. If they are going to build it though, then I don't see why they would not build it military grade, it would be a practice run for building a full LHD and maybe they can even share parts.

The only thing on your list that I think definitely won't happen would be the turboprop plane, they have drones these days.

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Well, I don't know how much cost is added when you switch from commercial grade to military grade. Are the current CG vessels being built military grade? Also, a light LHD for the CG will certainly panic some folks, so it's a bit of masking like how the Japanese love to call their vessels helicopter destroyers.

Regarding turboprops, drones can take their place. I just figure it would mean less equipment needed to manage drones like a control room. Buying off the shelf turboprops for reconnaissance and light interdiction (pirates) should be easy - Brazil's Super Tucanos come to mind. Planes of such size can easily even land at runways built in the SCS. This item is just one of those outfield thoughts, an all helo air wing is just fine if such a LHD even gets built for the CG.

Brumby said:

I don't see China using these oversized cutters in the same manner as Japan in the way you have described their usage.

I view the need for China in doing so because of their strategic intend and how they see the South China Sea as effectively their "coast".

An oversized lake needs a cutter to match. A coast guard by definition guards the coast unless your coast happens to be the South China Sea. China will need a longer endurance vessel to match their strategic vision.

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Except that China's interests in Africa are growing at a tremendous rate. Such cutters would be ideally suited for watching out for those interests over those types of distances.

Jeff Head said:

Except that China's interests in Africa are growing at a tremendous rate. Such cutters would be ideally suited for watching out for those interests over those types of distances.

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I agree Africa is far away but isn't this the role of the traditional blue water navy? I just cannot reconcile a coast guard vessel performing such role in a far distance location even if it is capable of performing it in a lower intensity environment.
I know your example of Japan but likewise I don't believe (I might be wrong) the US uses its CC the way that Japan does.
I think such a long distance vessel is as much an enforcement and as an image projection for a long distance backyard scenario.

Brumby said:

I agree Africa is far away but isn't this the role of the traditional blue water navy? I just cannot reconcile a coast guard vessel performing such role in a far distance location even if it is capable of performing it in a lower intensity environment.
I know your example of Japan but likewise I don't believe (I might be wrong) the US uses its CC the way that Japan does.
I think such a long distance vessel is as much an enforcement and as an image projection for a long distance backyard scenario.

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To the contrary, the US Coast Guard has entire Coast Guard Commands that are located far away from the Continental US.

For example, Patrol Forces Southwest Asia or PATFORSWA is a United States Coast Guard command based in Manama, Bahrain.

Now this is somewhat off-fopic, but germane t the conversation because it reflects what the Chinese may ultimately do with their own Coast Guard vessels, particularly these larger ones

Even the traditional CONUS areas for the U.S. Coast Guard have received responsibilities for operating away from the Continental US. For example, the Pacific Area (PACAREA) is the Coast Guard’s regional command force that now provides maritime safety, security, and stewardship all across the Pacific...from the U.S. west coast to areas across Asia.

As a result, you regularly now see the principle large coast guard cutters, and even patrol boats, deployed to nations and areas all over the world.

U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Waesche (WMSL 751) in the Java Sea with Indonesia and U.S. Navy



U.S. Coast Guard cutter Mellon (WHEC 717) in Malaysia:



U.S. Coast Guard cutter Monomoy (WPB 1326) in Bahrain



U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Sherman (WHEC 720) in Okinawa



U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Boutwell, (WHEC 719) off the Coast of Ecuador



U.S. Coast Guard cutter Midgett (WMEC 726) catches submersible with 13,000 lbs of Cocaine 335 miles off of Costa Rica

Jeff Head said:

Except that China's interests in Africa are growing at a tremendous rate. Such cutters would be ideally suited for watching out for those interests over those types of distances.

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Except China's SLOC strategy, outside ECS and SCS, has been to work with local and regional nations on maritime security, and only using Chinese assets when local governments can't handle specific problems. Do you think China will change that policy?