China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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SEAD

Junior Member
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So you think they don't have it eh well today is 2022 as of 2021 and it will be expanded to 138 soon! here it is
Jilin Commercial EO Satellite Constellation of China

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Jilin-1 GXA (Guangxe-A — Optical-A) is a Chinese commercial remote sensing satellite mission, also referred to as JL-1, designed and owned by the Chang Guang Satellite Technology Co. Ltd (CGSTL) of Bejing. The development of the JL-1 constellitation began in 2015, and the first 4 satellites were launched on 7 October 2015. In 2021, there are 30 satellites in the constellation and the constellation will be expanded to 138 satellites to offer high resolution imagery and a high revisit commercial service.
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You need literally thousands of JL-1 satellites for real time surveillance job in a large airfield… 138 may be enough for real time surveillance of any single point in the world, but way off surveillance of a large region in real time. I don’t know if you can get the difference.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Russia supposedly has the Container series of radars which allegedly can detect the B-2. I would not surprised if China either had or was working on something similar. Only nation in Europe with similar radar other than Russia is France. Russia has like a 3-tier radar system. Longest wave and longest range is Container, then they have the Voronezh, and then the Rezonans series of radars.
 

SEAD

Junior Member
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Russia supposedly has the Container series of radars which allegedly can detect the B-2. I would not surprised if China either had or was working on something similar. Only nation in Europe with similar radar other than Russia is France. Russia has like a 3-tier radar system. Longest wave and longest range is Container, then they have the Voronezh, and then the Resonanz series of radars.
China must have better radar than Russia, but my key point is “Can detect” is faaaaaaaar away from a reliable warning system. I “can do” intercontinental communications with a 1W transmitter doesn’t mean I can do that anytime in any condition, leave alone EW.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think all others are talking about nuclear CM, it’s meaningless to discuss conventional attack in a nuclear war. anyway.

There’s no need to explain why 51 has no difference with 30 in a real time surveillance scene.

For air defense, who knows. We all heard a lot about Chinese OTH/anti-stealth radar blah blah, but as a former radio engineer I cannot believe that they can detect B-2/B-21 in long enough distance/high enough accuracy/good enough ECCM capability for early warning(they are ok for tactical usage, but never for strategic warning). I also cannot assume that PLA didn’t consider the huge amount of B-21 and emerging EW/cyber threat in the next decade when building those silos, So my own hypothesis for this puzzle is that they may use OBS. it’s an big opening question and I don’t want to convince you or anybody.

TEL and SSBN is another story. I think it’s more reasonable to just build more TELs if they are good enough. Meanwhile building silos is meaningful only if they can survive under LRSO/B-61 attack.
OTH radar only has strategic use as it lacks the spatial resolution for tactical use like fire control. If what you say is true then OTH radar is useless as it lacks both tactical and strategic application yet multiple countries have built OTH radars.

Can you comment on detection via Rayleigh scattering from targets on OTH radar?
 

SEAD

Junior Member
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OTH radar only has strategic use as it lacks the spatial resolution for tactical use like fire control. If what you say is true then OTH radar is useless as it lacks both tactical and strategic application yet multiple countries have built OTH radars.

Can you comment on detection via Rayleigh scattering from targets on OTH radar?
just see my previous response about “can detect”. OTH is perhaps the most unreliable radar as far as I know.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Once you detect a target with the longest range OTH radar you can then progressively refine the sight picture with the data from the other radars. That will be enough to dispatch interceptors to the area of the target. Might not be an exact fix to fire an air to air missile at it, but the target is a subsonic aircraft. The idea it can fly at subsonic speeds to the target and drop a gravity bomb right on top of the target, well, I will not say it is impossible but it will be challenging. Against one of the other major powers you will be better off firing cruise missiles.
 

SEAD

Junior Member
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Once you detect a target with the longest range OTH radar you can then progressively refine the sight picture with the data from the other radars. That will be enough to dispatch interceptors to the area of the target. Might not be an exact fix to fire an air to air missile at it, but the target is a subsonic aircraft. The idea it can fly at subsonic speeds to the target and drop a gravity bomb right on top of the target, well, I will not say it is impossible but it will be challenging. Against one of the other major powers you will be better off firing cruise missiles.
For more details, OTH radar is extremely sensitive to fake targets.
the key point here is US actually have weapons that can bypass the early warning and destroy those silos, and I’m trying to find a reasonable explanation for that.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
For more details, OTH radar is extremely sensitive to fake targets.
the key point here is US actually have weapons that can bypass the early warning and destroy those silos, and I’m trying to find a reasonable explanation for that.
You were given answers but you don't like them. But by all means, keep believing thousands of B-21s will instamagically teleport over the silo fields.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
For more details, OTH radar is extremely sensitive to fake targets.
the key point here is US actually have weapons that can bypass the early warning and destroy those silos, and I’m trying to find a reasonable explanation for that.
OTH radar can indeed be faked out by going very slowly because their principle of noise filtering is via Doppler shift of the return signal.

But large aircraft (example: Boeing 737) have stall speeds near 160 knots or so which is still much faster than atmospheric phenomena. Going very slowly also makes the aircraft vulnerable against everything except OTH radars.
 

SEAD

Junior Member
Registered Member
OTH radar can indeed be faked out by going very slowly because their principle of noise filtering is via Doppler shift of the return signal.

But large aircraft (example: Boeing 737) have stall speeds near 160 knots or so which is still much faster than atmospheric phenomena. Going very slowly also makes the aircraft vulnerable against everything except OTH radars.
Such radars are sensitive to many kinds of jamming and decoys. This weakness roots in its extremely narrow band width and complicated channel.
More band width means more information you can use to confront cheating, simpler channel means less guessing the algorithm needs to make when explaining the signal. That’s a fundamental problem.
 
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