China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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DarkStar

Junior Member
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This is my worry as well... that America's nuclear blackmail of China is basically the proposition of either China willingly subjugates under the US or else all life in earth will perish, and I'm afraid that faced with this sort of dilemma the Chinese government might cave in for the good of all humanity because China is again too nice and naive.
I don’t think so; if that were truly the case, China would not have bothered with these new silos and evident nuclear buildup, nor would it have bothered with HGVs and efforts to defeat US anti ballistic missile defences.

And in line with the humanity of the CPC, they have already prepared for such an eventuality with massive nuclear fallout shelters for the people, dating as far back as the Cold War. Chances are, if the anglos really want to go nuclear suicide bomber, why Anglo survivors that remain are still going to be facing a million plus string Chinese state, ready to rebuild China back to being the sole intact state in existence.

i hazard a guess being an Anglo would very quickly be an endangered species after such an exchange
 

bustead

Junior Member
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Minuteman silos were built when contemporary missile CPE were on the order of km+, It is not clear if the these silos would be as hardened as new silos built now would be.
Minuteman silos are built to withstand 2000 psi of overpressure. In other words, they can survive a 500 kiloton blast within 300 meters.

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The Soviets had silos that are less reinforced than the minuteman silos. Most of their silos cannot survive 1000 psi overpressure.

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IMO, the goal of silo hardening is not to allow your silos to survive a direct hit. Rather, it is to force the enemy into expending a large number of warheads against your silos so that a first strike would be difficult and wasteful in terms of warheads. Also, ICBMs are not 100% reliable. If China is confident that 5% of incoming ICBMs warheads will fail, malfunction or be intercepted, then 500 silos would be more than enough to guarantee a retaliation of >20 warheads. Since 20 ground bursting 4.4Mt warheads can cause well over 160 million casualties in the US and contaminate all their food production areas, I'd say 20 warheads will be the bottom line of credible deterrence.

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Sardaukar20

Captain
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Watch this talk from Lt.Col. Wilkerson (ret.) about this particular topic. It was quite illuminating to say the least.

Interesting talk by Lt. Col. Wilkerson (ret). He sounds at first like a reasonable person. He talls about the insanity of nuclear war. Talks about the insanity of provoking China on Taiwan. And also calling for India, Pakistan, and Israel to be included into nuclear arms control.

But I think he doesn't understand East Asia. He thinks that Taiwan is only a serious matter because Xi Jinping thinks it so. C'mon man. Really?

Even more insane. Lt. Col. Wilkerson thinks that the US should 'unleash' Japan to keep China in check. He argues that the US should just end its nuclear umbrella protection on Japan and allow Japan to develop nuclear weapons. He also says that Japan will outbuild China on nuclear weapons. And a nuclear Japan this would make Asia safer. WTF?

If Japan starts to build nukes it'll just open Pandora's box in East Asia. China and the two Koreas would be fuming. Not to mention Russia too. A Japan with nukes could go full Nippon Kaigi. What these countries do not want to see is a return of Imperial Japan with nukes. The nuclear arms race and military tensions in East Asia will go nuts!

Or alternatively, Japan will realise that America no longer has its back. So, it could start to negotiate a more cooperative and respectful relationship with China. I doubt Japan has the economy and public support to create and sustain a large enough nuclear arsenal that can deter China, NK, and Russia. The Japanese public should not want to have their cities targeted with nukes. The Japanese, of all people should have had enough with nukes and nuclear accidents.
 

ougoah

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Nuclear Japan actually won't be a problem. It will spur East Asia and Russia into an arms race which would only push their militaries further. If it ends in nuclear war, the US will get annihilated with it... honestly the rest of the world probably will too since Russia would be involved. If it doesn't end in nuclear war, all these nations would have growth in MIC which would be good in their case since they can do with a better MIC. If it ends in conventional war, the Japanese would lose. They have few young people to lose and send to war. China alone has more young people than the entire east and southeast Asia region plus Russia combined. Japan would be the main target of both Russia and China and Korea sure as hell wouldn't go to war for Japan. At most it'll stay neutral while working on nukes as well.

Unleashing Japan today is not like the Japan of the past. They have no appetite for serious ability for high intensity warfare. China alone would be able to take on Japan conventionally, if things go nuclear the US would be included by everyone possibly even the Japanese lol.

Clearly a stupid man's thinking to unleash Japan. It would actually be a Godsend for China if Japan was unleashed. It isn't the bulldog against a starving man anymore. Japan is the half dead starved puppy now. A lot of talk of high technology this and that but there isn't a single military domain or MIC domain Japan is stronger in than either China or Russia. It has a much weaker society now and even less appetite for war after what's happened in the 20th century. A Japan that publicly builds a bigger military is only going to give China a reason to unleash itself. China is barely jogging along. It could afford to triple military spending and MIC.

Let's remember than China has the world's largest supply of steel and it has one of the top 5 largest supplies of proven raw materials for war factories. Even if raw material imports stopped, China would have enough within China to build the world's largest military. It does everything itself and can make as many as it wants. It has a large skilled workforce greater than the developed world. What appetite does the developed world have for nuclear war and conscripting their soldiers to fight and die horribly in Asia? Against a country that has not invaded a neighbour, not committed warcrimes, not done anything above even their trumped up fake charges which by themselves are not reason enough for war. Most young westerners can barely get out of bed or put their brains to learning STEM fields. War? don't make me laugh they'll be begging for ceasefire before the shooting starts. So if some western leaders want Japan to be the sacrificial pawn, a few East Asian nations and Russia would only be too happy to finish that off and divide Japan up. Maybe that's the sort of role these western elites have in mind for Japan. Hopefully Japanese politicians aren't willing to be the "new India" and only want to continue trading and peaceful conduct. There are some empty platitudes given once in a while but overall Japan is very much sane and has no interest in playing the designated western meatshield.

Most Japanese people today are extreme pacifists. They have no intention of going to war with China over Taiwan. They no longer control Taiwan like in the past. They have nothing to gain.

Beyond some exercising with the quad, Japan will not fight a war against any adversary that could potentially end them in any way they please. They have no desire to conquer Asia like they did in the past. They have no need for more raw materials and land. They have social issues that make America's and China's look like a walks in the park. Japan has under 10 modern surface and subsurface vessels. They barely have an army and in this day and age of offensive weapons, supply chains will get annihilated before their Type 10s can find their next rounds of ammunition. Developing nukes require some testing and there is no way such a secret would not get out, if not by detection of tests then spies would uncover it. It would only give China more reason to stockpile thousands of warheads which would be good for China. If Japan choose to nuke anyone, the Americans would be targeted for allowing it. Just like if the UK nuked Russia, you can bet your last dollar the Russians would nuke the US.

The US has no advantage by allowing Japan to develop nukes. It would only be more nukes they control less than their own. If Japan nukes anyone, the Americans get nuked in the thousands. Bye bye USA. So where is the thinking behind this? I'll tell you, it's for public consumption. It sounds good and western chauvinists want to hear this. It gives them the idea they will have more nations they can put in front of them or back them up. These Generals and key military men do not actually think these are good ideas. It's all an act for the public. You will get an answer that's designed to please the crowd and the overall consensus in attitude. It's to keep alive the idea they can tell Japan what to do. That they are in charge and Japan serves the USA. It's satisfying to western egos. When you live and understand western thinking, you immediately uncover this. It's like asking women in public on camera if they find you attractive. Do you really expect honest answers?
 
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Broccoli

Senior Member
Not as expensive as you may think. 150 minuteman silos only cost $75 million in 1961, which is less than $700 million today. Or around the cost of a few 5th gen fighters.

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Also we shouldn't look American prices since building stuff is cheaper in China as Jeffrey Lewis points out in that podcasts when it comes to cost. It could be that making these new silos cost less than 500 million dollars... probably cost of 5-6 J-20's.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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Also we shouldn't look American prices since building stuff is cheaper in China as Jeffrey Lewis points out in that podcasts when it comes to cost. It could be that making these new silos cost less than 500 million dollars... probably cost of 5-6 J-20's.

Or use the Peacekeeper MX ICBM as a benchmark.

It's supposedly $70M

And call it $5M for a minuteman/MX missile silo.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
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America is like the high school shooter that takes as many innocent lives with him as possible after killing his ex-gf and her new boyfriend after she left him for the other guy...

This is my worry as well... that America's nuclear blackmail of China is basically the proposition of either China willingly subjugates under the US or else all life in earth will perish, and I'm afraid that faced with this sort of dilemma the Chinese government might cave in for the good of all humanity because China is again too nice and naive.


Interesting, you are afraid of that. You would rather it not cave and the rest of humanity, which presumably include you, go extinct instead.

But worry not, the communist government absolutely would cave if it is required for its own survival, as it has done many times before and then wrap the cave on the color of heroic courage, and the bombastically conflate its own good with the good the China and the world, which it why it is still around and in power. But it would do absolutely nothing if that is merely for the good of all humanity.
 
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zgx09t

Junior Member
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Interesting, you are afraid of that. You would rather it not cave and the rest of humanity, which presumably include you, go extinct instead.

But worry not, the communist government absolutely would cave if it is required for its own survival, as it has done many times before and then wrap the cave on the color of heroic courage, and the bombastically conflate its own good with the good the China and the world, which it why it is still around and in power. But it would do absolutely nothing if that is merely for the good of all humanity.

In your dreams. China since the new republic founding has stared down all these western evil forces a few times, nukes or no nukes, including a slavish lackey on the western border just yonder the Himalaya and beat the crap out of them. China will do it again if necessary, nukes or no nukes. You feeling lucky, punk?
 
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