Cause and effect of Chinese GDP & ecnomic growth Worldwide.

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

That's false. Industrial-military complex created alot of jobs.

US economic problem is because of the following.
1)House market price crashed. Banks are not lending. People are struggle to make payment.
2)Because Banks are not lending, businesses are folding. Because business are folding, people are laying off. Because people are laying off, more houses are foreclosing. Because more houses are foreclosing, the banks tightening even more. It's in a vicious cycle.

Defense need high skilled labor and long training period. Your average Joe blow cannot get defense job. More Money for defense mean less money for other program not to mention more burden for paying interest on the goverment issue bond
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

Defense need high skilled labor and long training period. Your average Joe blow cannot get defense job. More Money for defense mean less money for other program not to mention more burden for paying interest on the goverment issue bond

well, that's OK. The world is all about redistribution of wealth not about equality. You keep your creme of crop and the machine intact. Then you can come out ahead.

Look at this way
A country with great industrial-military complex can have the option of switching toward more real estate business.

Whereas a country good at real estate can only stuck with real estate.

I am talking mainly the options a country can have , not so much about feeding and helping the poors. UNICEF, REDCROSS can take care of those if it become critical.
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

The bottom line is GDP strong doesn't mean a country is strong. History has proven that. It really depends on its GDP content.

US has great tech base military and commercial. Even if it has big recession, it still limited to economic recession. No political shakeout

But if China has big recession, then it won't limited to economic problem only, it will have severe consquence, it might lead to breakup of the country if it has severe recession. So much for all its real estate it building now. It's a non-core value for a strong country.
It's Not what upholding a country when the country is in crisis.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

well, that's OK. The world is all about redistribution of wealth not about equality. You keep your creme of crop and the machine intact. Then you can come out ahead.

Look at this way
A country with great industrial-military complex can have the option of switching toward more real estate business.

Whereas a country good at real estate can only stuck with real estate.

I am talking mainly the options a country can have , not so much about feeding and helping the poors. UNICEF, REDCROSS can take care of those if it become critical.

No. more money for defense mean it attract talent to defense industry and less for industry. That is why you see GM and Chrysler dethroned from their position as the best car in the world and Toyota is now the largest car manufacturer

Having the best weapon only mean has the bragging right People always think they fight the last war . All those expensive CVG and their escort will be of no use in the future. Let recall the Malvinas war Argentinia only has 6 exocet missile and yet they inflict so much damage to British navy.

Considering that missile is thousand more lethal and smart now go figure it out
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

Let's do a China Crisis situation. Let's say CHina has a great economic recession, alot of unemployment, banking in crisis, alot of social upheaval, and so calling for fall of CCP.

then suddenly the external elements come all at the same time
1)India forces going into Aksai Chin
2)Taiwan declaring Independence
3)Vietnam with ASEAN alies taking on islands on South CHina Sea
4)South Korea going into North Korea.
5)uigurs and tibetans staging armed revolts

Can China handle a severe economic crisis and external elements see chances to do damages and jump at the opportunity.

Ability to handle such crisis is what make a country strong. Not real estate.
 
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

External threats would pull the nation together, and may also have the side effect of alleviating some elements of the recession. But seriously, out of the 5 situations you mentioned, China only has to really worry about the second. 1 and 3 would never happen, and if they did would be resolved within days, favorably. China wouldn't care that much about 4, and 5 is an internal security (PAP) matter.
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

If China in deep economic recession, any combination external elements could very well happen I think.

我眼中的戴旭上校

昨天一网友给了我一个链接,让我第一次知道和了解了戴上校,带着好奇,我看了《2030---美国肢解中国》视频,看了后在网上收集他的观点,以下是网友总结的他的主要观点。

  一、中国需要正确的战略定位。历史上,中国没有成为世界大国的意识,失去地理大发现的机会后,已没有成为世界大国的可能。现实中,周边强国林立,注定中国只能成为地区大国。客观上,现在中国还没有奠定成为地区大国的国体基础。中国人应该从不切实际的大国梦中清醒:复兴任重道远。

  二、国家发展需要顶层设计,要抓住技术立国、制造业强国的根本,。在发展战略产业时,防止国际阴谋暗算。

  三、 畸形发展的房地产业,已成为国际资本和国内投机资本,联合打劫中国人民财富的战场,必须从战略角度思考:房地产支撑不了大国崛起。

  四、韬光养晦的口号已构成战略泄密,应该放弃。泄密导致周边大国小国群起掠夺中国利益。真正的战略是顺势而为,让别人无从洞察。

  五、首次提出新型军队的口号,以区别于现在的旧式军队,并提出“灵、远、高、快、准、狠、新”七个方面的具体特征。

  六、首次提出,应以太空和大海为背景的蓝色国防观取代以大陆为背景的黄色国防观。

  七、首次提出,中国军队转型应该指向天空和大海方向。

  八、首次提出,空中化才是现代军队的本质,应该与信息化并列,作为我军的战略指导;

  九、 首次提出,新型军队应该以鹰击战略为指导,摒弃刺猬战略。

  十、首次提出应该“解放”解放军,把解放军从本土防卫中解放出来,进行远征型改造。21世纪的战争是围绕资源设计的,新型军队对内要能保护领土、领海内的资源;对外要能到公共空间去争夺资源。要把空军和海军,从对陆军的依附中解放出来;把陆军从地面解放出来;

  十一、中国建立空中骑兵军团。三军都飞起来,军队就现代化了;

  十二、中国军队应为沿海提供3000公里安全纵深。在没有防御支撑点的情况下,主要以远程空中饱和打击来实现。在3000公里内,要有全歼敌人空海基地和航母集群的能力;

  十三、现在伞降型的空降兵,是无效的军事力量,应该进行现代化改造,转变为空中突击师。

  十四、中国必须拥有航空母舰;

  十五、新战争时代已经来临,空天战争是新型闪电战,以国家整体瘫痪为特征。具体分析了新战争的四个波次,旧式军队对新型战争无能为力。

  十六、美国隐身空军已经成型,中国现行空防体系,全部过时,中国面临核武时代以来最重大战略威胁;

  十七、从一种退役战机全面回顾中国空军如何成为防空军形态的经验教训,提出中国空军应该向美国空军和以色列空军学习。

  十八、认为中国六百年来没有人懂海军;

  十九、应该开天辟海,再造一个蓝中国;

  二十、没有国防转化能力的GDP是狗的屁

  21、中国已被C型战略包围

  22美国的世界帝国战略与中国的危机

  23、中国将在十年内遭遇重大危机,面临被肢解的命运;

  24、中国新型空军要能在八千里外拦截战争;

  25、太空是未来战争的制高点;

  26、美国利用金融危机设计战略骗局

  看了他的演讲,有以下体会。戴旭是一个合格的军人,他的论点都是基于中国人民解放军对扞卫祖国和人民利益的基础上产生的。作为一个军人就应该有骨气,有血性,就是要未雨绸缪。他对国际局势的分析,还有他的战略观点是对还是错可以让历史来考证。但是他的这种为国思危,为民请战的精神值得军人学习。作为军人严格的说应该是高层的战略战术的制定者,必须要做到未雨绸缪,否者一旦战争爆发,就会直接把祖国和人民赤裸裸的暴露在敌人的枪口下。中国真正的战略思想还是太少了,哗众取宠、华而不实、浮于表面、一知半解的多,真正能为国家和人民前途命运着想的还是要努力增加啊

  每一个中国人都希望国家早日强大,但这要靠对社会发展规律的正确把握,和持之以恒的勤劳努力,而不是凭借投机取巧,更不能靠自欺欺人自吹自擂,打肿脸充胖子。晚清洋务运动后期,中国朝野和西方很多人认为中国正在崛起,坚信以中国丰富的物产,如积极变革,“成为世界最大强国,雄视东西洋,风靡四邻,当非至难之事也”,中国人从上到下都认为中国比日本强大,北洋舰队比日本舰队强大。但是,1894年一位叫宗方小太郎的驻华间谍认为这是“只见形而下未见其形而上 ”,通过对清朝全面的剖析,他认为大清国不仅官场腐败,而且“全民都腐败”,全民丧失信仰,社会风气江河日下,虽然表面上不断改革和进步,但“犹如老屋废厦加以粉饰”,不堪一击。

  好战必亡,而惧战则必危。我们中国人最大的不幸就是居安不能思危!中国需要戴旭这样的军人,越多越好!虽然,戴旭的演讲给人带来的冲动,并不是像岳飞“怒发冲冠凭栏处”的激昂型冲动,也非辛弃疾“醉里挑灯看剑”的悲壮型冲动,是一种什么样的冲动呢?反观自我,一遍,两遍,三遍,我能感觉出这种冲动中怀着仇恨的重要特征,是的,没错,是一种仇恨的情绪,也许,他的文章激起了别人心中的仇恨感源于他本人心中的仇恨。

  咱们中国永不称霸!咱们中国人民最最热爱和平,这是中国人民从外国侵略者对我国的侵略史中得出的痛苦教训。但咱中国人决不做孬种,中国数百年的近代史,数百年的反侵略史,充分说明这个千真万确的真理。因此,如果那些战争狂人们妄想把战争强加到中国人民头上,中国人民有共产党领导,有毛泽东的军事思想作指导,我们中国人民一定会打赢所有的反侵略战争的。

  以上是我看了他的视频的感受,因为我没有研究过军事问题,他的观点我就不评价了!

Googgle translation

In my eyes DAI Xu-Colonel

Yesterday, a User has given me a link, let me know and understand for the first time to wear the school, with curiosity, I saw "2030 --- U.S. dismember China," video, after reading on the Internet to collect his view, the following are User summary of his main points.

First, China needs the right strategy. Historically, China has no sense of the world's largest country, loss of geographical discovery of opportunities, has not yet become a world power possible. In reality, the surrounding power everywhere, destined to China can only become a regional power. Objectively speaking, now that China has not yet become a regional power to lay the basis of the state system. Chinese people should a large country from the unrealistic dreams awake: Renaissance long way to go.

Second, the national development needs top-level design, we must seize the technology was founded, manufacturing power of the fundamental. In the development of strategic industry, the prevention of international conspiracy plot against.

Third, abnormal development, real estate, has become the international capital and domestic venture capital, joint battlefield rob the wealth of the Chinese people, we must think from a strategic point of view: Real estate can not support the rise of great powers.

Fourth, the slogan has been keeping a low profile in a strategic leak, should be abandoned. Leak led to a small country rallied around the great powers plundered China's interests. The real strategy is to flow, to let others no insight.

5, first proposed the slogan of the new armed forces, as distinct from the present old-style troops and put forward the "spirit, far, high, fast, accurate and relentless, the new" seven aspects of the specific characteristics.

6, was first proposed, should be based on space and the sea of blue as the background to replace the defense concept of the mainland's national defense concept of a yellow background.

7, was first proposed, the Chinese army in transition should point to the direction of the sky and the sea.

8, was first proposed, in the air is of the essence of a modern army, should information side by side, as our army's strategic guidance;

9, was first proposed, the new military strategy should be guided eagle strike and discard hedgehog strategy.

10, first proposed should be "liberated" People's Liberation Army, the People's Liberation Army freed from territorial defense to conduct an expedition-type transformation. The 21st century war is a resource designed around the new army to be able to protect the domestic territory, territorial waters resources; external to the public space to be able to go for resources. Should the Air Force and Navy, from the Army's dependence freed; the army to liberate from the ground;

11, China has established air cavalry regiment. Three armed services fly them, the modernization of the army;

12, the Chinese armed forces should be 3,000 km along the coast to provide security in depth. In the absence of defensive anchor of the situation, mainly long-range air combat to achieve saturation. 3000 km, there must be wipe out the enemy land and sea-based air carrier cluster capability;

13, now airborne parachute type is a valid military force should be modernized, transformed into the air assault division.

14, China must have an aircraft carrier;

15, the new era of war has come, the space is a new blitz of war to the country's overall paralysis. A detailed analysis of the four waves of a new war, old new kind of war the army could do nothing right.

16, the United States Air Force has stealth shape, China's current air defense system, all out of date, China is faced with nuclear weapons since the days of the most significant strategic threat;

17, retired from a comprehensive review of the Chinese Air Force fighter how to become a form of anti-air experience and lessons that China Air Force, Air Force and the Israeli Air Force should learn from.

18, that China six centuries to no one understands the Navy;

19, it should be to drive a provision of the sea, a blue recycling China;

20, there is no ability to defense conversion GDP is a dog's fart

21, China has been surrounded by C-type strategy

22 U.S. world empire strategy and China's crisis

23, China will face a major crisis within a decade, facing the fate of dismemberment;

24, China's new air force inside and outside to be able to intercept in the 8000 war;

25, space is the commanding heights of future wars;

26, the U.S. strategy of deception designed to use the financial crisis

Read his speech, the following experience. DAI Xu is a qualified soldier, and his arguments are based on the People's Liberation Army to the defense of the motherland and the people's interests on the basis of generated. As a soldier should have moral integrity, courage and uprightness, is to plan ahead. His analysis of the international situation, and his strategic view is right or wrong will allow history to textual research. But he's such a perilous for the country, the spirit of the people Qingzhan soldiers should learn from. As soldiers, strictly speaking should be a high-level strategic and tactical makers, we must take precautions against any person if war broke out, the motherland and the people will be directly exposed to the enemy naked at gunpoint. China's real strategic thinking is still too small, sensational, slick, floating on the surface, a smattering of knowledge of multi-real for the sake of future and destiny of the country and the people or to efforts to increase the ah

Every Chinese people want a strong state as soon as possible, but this was dependent on the correct understanding of the laws of social development, and the persistent hard work, rather than by virtue of opportunism, but also can not rely on self-deception boasts 打肿脸充胖子. The latter part of the Westernization Movement in Late Qing Dynasty, China's ruling and opposition parties and the West many people think that China is rising rapidly and firmly believed that the Chinese rich natural resources, such as a positive change, "has become the world's largest power, the male, as something foreign, swept the neighbors, when a non-to make it difficult matter also" The Chinese believe that China than in Japan from top to bottom are all powerful fleet stronger than the Japanese fleet. However, the 1894 case of a called party Kotaro spy stationed in China think it is, "I saw a physical before its metaphysical", through a comprehensive analysis of the Qing Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, he agreed that it is not only of official corruption, and that "for all the corruption" all the people lost beliefs, social atmosphere in decline, although the surface to continuously reform and progress, but "just like old houses to be glossing over of waste Ha" vulnerable.

Belligerent certainly fail, while the fear of fighting units must risk. Our greatest misfortune is that the Chinese people can not think of Jyu-Wei! China needs to DAI Xu-like soldiers, the better! Although the DAI Xu's speech brings the impulse is not as Yue Fei "help feeling angry and lean on a railing at" the passionate type impulse, but also non-Xin Qi-ji "Zuili burning the midnight oil to see the sword," the heroic-type impulse, is what kind of impulse to do ? In contrast self, again, twice, three times, I can feel out of this impulse in the important characteristics of hatred, yes, yes, is a kind of hatred, perhaps, his article stirred the hearts of others feelings of hatred from the hearts of his own hatred.

Let China will never seek hegemony! Let's far the most Chinese people love peace, which is the Chinese people from foreign invaders aggression against our country in the history of the bitter lessons drawn. However, the Chinese people will never do 咱 coward, China's modern history for hundreds of years, centuries-old history of aggression, fully illustrate the true truth. Therefore, if the war maniacs who attempted in vain to war, forcing the heads of the Chinese people, Chinese people have the leadership of the CPC, with the guidance of Mao Zedong's military thinking, we, Chinese people will win all of the anti-war of aggression.

These are the videos I saw of his feelings, because I have not studied military issues, his views I do not assessed!
 
Last edited:

solarz

Brigadier
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

If China in deep economic recession, any combination external elements could very well happen I think.

我眼中的戴旭上校

昨天一网友给了我一个链接,让我第一次知道和了解了戴上校,带着好奇,我看了《2030---美国肢解中国》视频,看了后在网上收集他的观点,以下是网友总结的他的主要观点。

  一、中国需要正确的战略定位。历史上,中国没有成为世界大国的意识,失去地理大发现的机会后,已没有成为世界大国的可能。现实中,周边强国林立,注定中国只能成为地区大国。客观上,现在中国还没有奠定成为地区大国的国体基础。中国人应该从不切实际的大国梦中清醒:复兴任重道远。

  二、国家发展需要顶层设计,要抓住技术立国、制造业强国的根本,。在发展战略产业时,防止国际阴谋暗算。

  三、 畸形发展的房地产业,已成为国际资本和国内投机资本,联合打劫中国人民财富的战场,必须从战略角度思考:房地产支撑不了大国崛起。

  四、韬光养晦的口号已构成战略泄密,应该放弃。泄密导致周边大国小国群起掠夺中国利益。真正的战略是顺势而为,让别人无从洞察。

  五、首次提出新型军队的口号,以区别于现在的旧式军队,并提出“灵、远、高、快、准、狠、新”七个方面的具体特征。

  六、首次提出,应以太空和大海为背景的蓝色国防观取代以大陆为背景的黄色国防观。

  七、首次提出,中国军队转型应该指向天空和大海方向。

  八、首次提出,空中化才是现代军队的本质,应该与信息化并列,作为我军的战略指导;

  九、 首次提出,新型军队应该以鹰击战略为指导,摒弃刺猬战略。

  十、首次提出应该“解放”解放军,把解放军从本土防卫中解放出来,进行远征型改造。21世纪的战争是围绕资源设计的,新型军队对内要能保护领土、领海内的资源;对外要能到公共空间去争夺资源。要把空军和海军,从对陆军的依附中解放出来;把陆军从地面解放出来;

  十一、中国建立空中骑兵军团。三军都飞起来,军队就现代化了;

  十二、中国军队应为沿海提供3000公里安全纵深。在没有防御支撑点的情况下,主要以远程空中饱和打击来实现。在3000公里内,要有全歼敌人空海基地和航母集群的能力;

  十三、现在伞降型的空降兵,是无效的军事力量,应该进行现代化改造,转变为空中突击师。

  十四、中国必须拥有航空母舰;

  十五、新战争时代已经来临,空天战争是新型闪电战,以国家整体瘫痪为特征。具体分析了新战争的四个波次,旧式军队对新型战争无能为力。

  十六、美国隐身空军已经成型,中国现行空防体系,全部过时,中国面临核武时代以来最重大战略威胁;

  十七、从一种退役战机全面回顾中国空军如何成为防空军形态的经验教训,提出中国空军应该向美国空军和以色列空军学习。

  十八、认为中国六百年来没有人懂海军;

  十九、应该开天辟海,再造一个蓝中国;

  二十、没有国防转化能力的GDP是狗的屁

  21、中国已被C型战略包围

  22美国的世界帝国战略与中国的危机

  23、中国将在十年内遭遇重大危机,面临被肢解的命运;

  24、中国新型空军要能在八千里外拦截战争;

  25、太空是未来战争的制高点;

  26、美国利用金融危机设计战略骗局

If this guy actually had any credentials, he wouldn't be posting his views on the internet.

Let's examine a few of his crap ideas:

#1: what is this guy talking about? China has often been a superpower in history. China hasn't been a global superpower because globalization happened only recently.

#3: what the hell is this guy on? The real estate market is a foreign conspiracy? Robbing the people's wealth? Hello, if people didn't stand to
make money on real estate, they wouldn't invest in it.

#6: he is contradicting himself from point #1, where he mentions the threat of China's neighboring nations. What is a navy going to do against an India or Russian threat? And he claims to be in the military? Doesn't he realize that China has been a traditional land power precisely because it needs a strong army (as opposed to navy) in order to defend against land-based threats?

#10: so he is recommending that China follows in the US's footsteps. What a fool.

#14: he should read this thread.

#16: how about some facts, instead of empty hyperboles and unsupported claims.

#18: apparently he's never heard of Zheng He.

#26: if the financial crisis is an American conspiracy, then China needs more conspiracies like this.
 

antimatter

Banned Idiot
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

If this guy actually had any credentials, he wouldn't be posting his views on the internet.

Let's examine a few of his crap ideas:

#1: what is this guy talking about? China has often been a superpower in history. China hasn't been a global superpower because globalization happened only recently.

#3: what the hell is this guy on? The real estate market is a foreign conspiracy? Robbing the people's wealth? Hello, if people didn't stand to
make money on real estate, they wouldn't invest in it.

#6: he is contradicting himself from point #1, where he mentions the threat of China's neighboring nations. What is a navy going to do against an India or Russian threat? And he claims to be in the military? Doesn't he realize that China has been a traditional land power precisely because it needs a strong army (as opposed to navy) in order to defend against land-based threats?

#10: so he is recommending that China follows in the US's footsteps. What a fool.

#14: he should read this thread.

#16: how about some facts, instead of empty hyperboles and unsupported claims.

#18: apparently he's never heard of Zheng He.

#26: if the financial crisis is an American conspiracy, then China needs more conspiracies like this.


#1 explain China's got butchering up during Qing's time.
#3 Asian financial Crisis 97, foreign funds jacked up real estate price.
#6 Navy tech is more demanding than land based.
#26 Not the current Crisis he's talking about but future CHina recession or crisis creates opportunity for hegemonic power.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: In 1840, CHina has the highest GDP in the world but.....

Antimatter, I do not know why are you so... how to say... stubborn as to the fact that China had already been industrialised enough, she had a lot of technology that was well above most nations in this world.

The reason for the government building of infra-structure had been explained times and again to you by more experience people in this forum, but it didn't seemed to sink in. You keep haggering that the economy of China is a bubble... we disagree, only time will tell... guys I think we need to stop encouraging Antimatter to carry on this baseless and useless debate, cause he had been throwing in some random passages from the internet that could seemed to 'support' his idea, but fail to or wanted to look at those that don't.

One thing to add though... the so call following to the model of US (especially the amount to be added to the military or whatever) is idiotic. China is not US, or the west or any other nations in the world. She had her own unique culture, different type of people thus different type of management. By just plucking in the model used by US is heading for disaster. It is way out for you Antimatter... I will not dwelled very deep into the complicated matter, but I have one thing that I need to say... and pointed out... China had a large population - the largest in the world.

If I am the government, I will divert more money to my people than spent trillions after trillions in the military so as not to walk down the same path as Soviet Union during Cold War. I will not try to start an arm race that is practically useless.

Irregardless to what the supposedly Colonels and Generals had to said (and who knows, they have their own agenda), I think China is still on the right path.
 
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