A look inside the Chinese Beidou system receiver

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Um no, it depends whether the indigenous industry can build competitive performing and competitively priced products. For instance, if a hypothetical J-10C can either choose to mount WS-10B or an unrated Al-31F, and if the latter has much superior performance and is cheaper and can be acquired reliably, then PLAAF should go for the Russian engines, especially if the differential in performance is very great

Also, engines can only be procured from a single rare source for the PLA, whereas the various subcomponents you listed can be sourced from a far wider variety of vendors.

If Economic is big factor, you think Russia will buy some cheaper HQ9 instead of S300, or some 054A frigates?
And why do you think Putin explicitly stated Russia will not import China High speed Rail despite it has none of that tech and could use it?
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Technically, the counterfeit chips are refurbished processors from e-waste. Once Chinese labor costs rise enough, the "counterfeits" will move to India, Vietnam or where ever.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Rare earth and Propellant are considered natural resources. Yes, you definitely want to get natural resources from others , just like Oil. They are not related to made parts.

That answers your question of China seeing using foreign parts as a national security threat. For all we know those parts could be made in China in the first place.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Keep in mind, Opinion is subjective.

Can you give an example of product US outsrourcing to another country that it Cannot possibly do on its own?

iphone (the whole thing) AND everything electronics?:confused:

Or unless you're talking about the DF-21D ASBM, high speed train, and HQ-9 (with a 100% kill ratio from Turkey's air defense testing)?
 
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shen

Senior Member
The real reason US government want to ban the use of Chinese electronic parts is because corrupt politicians have been paid off by US companies unable to compete with Chinese firms on an equal basis. Huawei and ZTE is winning internationally by their own merit, therefore Chinese government doesn't need to resort to protectionism through fear-mongering.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
What ever people believe about the Chinese counterfeit parts story, all it tells you China can make those parts. And we know the US doesn't allow high-tech dual use components to be sold to China, so those foreign parts seen in Chinese hardware aren't a problem.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Welcome to globalization. You get components from all over the world, and was build in China, then mixed and match these components into your system.

Frankly, I do not believe that military systems in US, Europe, Japan, Korea, etc, are not using any sub-system from countries like China. I remember a saying from an old movie,

"American system, Russian systems... they are all made in Taiwan." And that show is way back in the 90s. Now it would be like... "American systems, Russian Systems... they are all made in China." :)

[video=youtube_share;dEkOT3IngMQ]http://youtu.be/dEkOT3IngMQ[/video]
I am still hopefull for that to change. the latest Smartphone entry on the US market the Moto X is assembled in Texas due to the Fact that it acctualy cost the same to build here as build there and import here.

Now back to the joke. Just like the Componets all the systems are basicly the same the only difrence is the encription and frequencys thats why a lot of the Smart Phones have options to use alternets. giving you combinations of GPS,GLONASS and Galileo here in the West. All of them based on a Satilite generating a time stamp and then sending out that signal at less power then a house hold electric lamp. that means that the systems all share the same problems to. Higher latatudes for example have issues because of the positions of the Satilites and there reduced coverage. the Signal is so weak GPS systems are actualy very easy to Jam.
GPS Jammers Illegal, Dangerous, and Very Easy to Buy
By John Brandon
Published March 17, 2010 | FoxNews.com

With car thieves in the United Kingdom using GPS jammers to aid their getaways, experts say it's only a matter of time until crooks -- and, ominously, terrorists -- in the United States catch on.

Jammers transmit a low-power signal that creates signal noise and fools a GPS receiver into thinking the satellites are not available. They can be used to confuse police and avoid toll charges, and some pranksters use them to nettle unsuspecting iPhone users.

But the real threat is the unknown. Criminals could use them to hide their whereabouts from law enforcement -- and some experts fear terrorists could use high-powered jammers to disrupt GPS reception on an airplane or in military operations.

The devices pose serious societal risks, and they're unquestionably illegal to buy and use in the United States. The FCC is bullish about pursuing anyone who buys a GPS jammer and will prosecute and jail anyone who uses one. Yet they're easily bought online, and their proponents say they should stay that way. Fox News was able to buy GPS jammers for as little as $50 from numerous online sources.

"GPS is so embedded in the transportation, manufacturing industries and economies of our societies that the risk is high," said David Last, an Emeritus Professor of Bangor University in the U.K. and a well-known authority on criminal use of GPS jammers.

"It's especially so in telecommunications: GPS is the ultimate source of timing for most of our telephone systems, the Internet and, in the U.S., phone cells."

All those systems are potential prey for jammers, and that's largely why they are illegal. But the devices' proponents say they can serve a purpose, and that people should have the right to buy them. And, for the time being, they can.

Jammer-Store.com, a company based in Sweden, sells the GJ6 jammer for $430. Brando Workshop, based on Hong Kong, sells the Car Cigarette Anti-GPS System for $49. Jammer-Store.com touts free worldwide shipping via UPS, FedEx and others as a perk for shoppers; one site even cited U.S.-specific models.

Michael Kharkovoy, the CEO at Jammer-Store, told FoxNews.com that GPS jammers can be stowed easily in a car or a bag and can help avoid spy detection -- say, from a spouse who suspects infidelity and plants a GPS tracking device like the Zoombak in a car.

"GPS jammer will help you protect your personal privacy," said Kharkovoy. "Our new GPS jammer model GJ6 was created to block all possible tracking systems and also all civil GPS systems including GPS L1, GPS L2, and GPS L5. To run the GPS jammer you simply turn on the switch at the top of the jammer."

But that, says Bruce Romano, the legal adviser at the FCC's Office of Engineering and Technology, is not a good argument for using a jammer. Anyone, he says, can hire a detective to perform a sweep of a car or personal belongings to look for GPS receivers.

"Besides being illegal, or [criminals] thinking they can get away with using them because customs will not detect them, there are a wide variety of critical devices that could be affected, and there could be unintended consequences that cause problems, and you have no idea you are causing them," Romano said.

The Air Force -- tasked with deploying and maintaining GPS satellites -- acknowledges that GPS systems are vulnerable, since they are widely available for public use.

"GPS design has incorporated measures to ensure signal availability to users in a war fighter environment," said Andy Roake, chief of current operations at Air Force Space Command Public Affairs. "An element of signal availability is jam resistance, and that has been a key focus in the development of the satellite constellation, the ground segment, and military user equipment.

"It is an important part of what we've done with our GPS constellation, and we continually work to improve jam-resistant capability. However, we cannot discuss technical elements of how we achieve this due to the sensitivity of revealing capabilities to any potential adversary."

While government agencies will not discuss how they detect or dissuade jamming equipment, or how next-gen GPS satellites will be improved to make jamming more difficult, Last said there was one step the Bush Administration took in 2008 to counteract the jamming risk -- a high-power, ground-based system called Enhanced Loran (eLoran), which was designed to be a fall-back for GPS jamming.

"So far, the current administration has not announced any intention to proceed with eLoran," Last said, "... leaving the U.S. without the principal defense it had announced it wished to deploy."

Of course, GPS and cell phone jammers are not exactly state of the art. The devices, which cause signal confusion and disruption, are actually similar to illegal cell phone jammers.

The risk is low for airplanes, which use ground-based radars for guidance and have a back-up navigation system that does not depend on satellites. Military personnel use a private GPS network. But GPS jamming could nonetheless cause confusion in the cockpit as pilots have to switch to back up navigation systems. And maritime shipments that rely on GPS coordinates for finding port locations could face problems as well.

Ronald Repasi, the FCC's Deputy Chief for the Office of Engineering and Technology, said selling, importing, owning, or using a GPS jammer in the U.S. is illegal, and he said the agency actively pursues those who use the devices. He said GPS jammers could pose a potential risk if used negligently.

"It goes to the capability of the jamming device," said Repasi. "Higher power devices will have greater range and greater potential for interference over a wider area than lower power devices."


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GPS jammers are little bigger then a Cellphone car Charger and fit in the same outlet. there are even instructionals to build them, and one Jammer to Jam them all some thing so small as a Leak in a wire on a satilite dish can Jam a GPS system the signals they produce are that reduculusly weak.
an alteritive system using ground based transmiters has been availible for a number of years systems like the
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pushed by the UK or the
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from Locata Corporation based out of Australia.
the threat of GPS Jamming is not limited to civilian truck drivers wanting to play hookie. GPS type systems are now previlent in almost every fasit of our lives from shipping to harvesting to transportation. And Especialy unmanned military applications this makes GPS spoofing a reality for not just US Drones but just about any and every nation employing such a system including China.
For one old movie refrence I give another.
The Reality is you don't need a fancy device to spoof just something already availble on Ebay.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Keep in mind, Opinion is subjective.

Can you give an example of product US outsrourcing to another country that it Cannot possibly do on its own?

When did I, if ever, said that US outsource to another country because it cannot possibly do on its own? Funny.

I said both US and China had the capability to do things on their own. The reason for outsourcing is simply because it is economically more feasible. Simple as that. Don't think too much.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
You can tell that to the US government. Even Huawei and ZTE commercial products, US government has no solid evidences of actual hacking but they were banned outright inside US and Australia Market.

And... why is that? Political? Or otherwise?
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
If Economic is big factor, you think Russia will buy some cheaper HQ9 instead of S300, or some 054A frigates?
And why do you think Putin explicitly stated Russia will not import China High speed Rail despite it has none of that tech and could use it?

Again... no.

Economic is a big factor... but so is national pride. Plus buying the S300 in Russia that are design in Russia, built in Russia and providing the Russian with jobs and to keep their R&D going on... well... that is a bigger factor there.

You don't just look at economic as economic... pure and simple, because when it came to national issue, economic is not just economic.

It is a bit complicated here...

Look to outsourcing of US components to other country. Yes, they do outsource. But the main manufacturing are build in US itself when it came to military equipment. So the majority of the assembly is there, and the most sensitive assembly is there too... as well as the design house, etc etc.

China and Russia is doing it that way too. And I wouldn't be surprise when you actually tear open the S300, and you find chips from Korea, US or even China too. Likewise, if you tear open F-22 of US, I really wouldn't be surprise to see Chinese made sub-components, or Russian made sub-components.
 
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