A look inside the Chinese Beidou system receiver

TyroneG said:

I am talking strictly about electronic systems. Not clothes, socks,or heavy industry products.

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so did I.

Actually a lot of Chinese Defense equipment makers are "Cheating" money from the Government or PLA. They claim their products are "Indegenious made" but majority of components on their system are foreign origin.

So, Chinese government and PLA got fooled and cheated, unaware of the situation. This Beidou system is an example of that.

If I were the PLA or government I would setup technical review group to examine contractor's products, if their critical components are foreign origin, then they would be disqualified.

TyroneG said:

Actually a lot of Chinese Defense equipment makers are "Cheating" money from the Government or PLA. They claim their products are "Indegenious made" but majority of components on their system are foreign origin.

So, Chinese government and PLA got fooled and cheated, unaware of the situation. This Beidou system is an example of that.

If I were the PLA or government I would setup technical review group to examine contractor's products, if their critical components are foreign origin, then they would be disqualified.

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I thought China is still under an arms embargo. Where do the Chinese "defense equipment makers" get their supply of "foreign components"? One or two NATO countries might sneak some equipment to China behind the US's back, but you are talking about a wide-spread phenomenon. How can this be happening with the US watching? The US would be complaining loud and clear long ago...

Note that this is different from getting a foreign technology and make it yourself. In order to simply "assemble foreign components", they have to get a steady supply. How can they hide from the govn't? They can sneak in one/two parts. Again, how do they make this invisible to the govn't when they need to do it on a regular basis? Again, this is different from "stealing foreign technology"...

TyroneG said:

An real inside article with more realistic outlook. The situation is worded as "Pathetic" Do a google translate on this.

国产军用集成电路真实水平惨不忍睹

最近一段时间，凡是涉及到军方的项目都会有一个指标是国产化率，就是国产的电子元器件占整个系统的比率，能用国产的就要用国产的，为了方便设计人员使用，有关部门推出了国产军用定型电子元件优选目录，这个目录做的还是很详细的，各种参数都有，性能指标，年生产能力，供货周期，为了方便替代进口电子元件还标明了对应的外国电子元件的型号。说实话我们都很希望能用上各种国产的芯片，当我满怀希望的打开客户端，瞬间裤衩惨白，我仿佛又回到了上个世纪八九十年代那个要啥没啥的时代。

　　随便先说几个我比较常用的，现场可编程门阵列，核心器件，定型的有三个型号，一个是北京某公司，另外两个都是成都某公司的，都是仿的（自己标明的），最高大上的是成都仿xilinx XCV600的，大约是2001，2002年的水准。

　　裤衩最惨白的是模数转换芯片AD，美国佬给中国禁运的标准是>8bit 10MSPS，TI公司吞并国半后2010年推出的射频采样AD已经可以做到3。6GSPS以上，还是12bit，这其中的差距可想而知，由于禁运导致我们都得花高价买走私货，我看了这个目录觉得美国佬这个标准定得真TM准，国产的AD基本没有超越过这个标准的，16位的采样率都是以K为单位的，目录中唯一打破禁运标准的是北京某公司推出的10bit 40MSPS的AD芯片。我觉得这已经是逆天的水平了，

　　而且这些芯片的年供货量非常少都是几百只，而且供货周期长。想大批量采购都比较困难

　　最近十年来我国的在雷达，电子对抗等领域取得了很大的进展，这是大家都公认的，但是很大程度上这些进步都是建立在进口电子元器件之上。我觉得我国应在集成电路方面加大投入和研究力度，因为我们的市场已经被进口元件全面占领，任何企业研究所不搞外包代工从基础开始研发全部都是亏本，就像这个目录上的有些东西，除非强制命令，否则不会有人用，技术上实在差了太多。

　　还有一点就是国内相关高校和某些研究所应该有一点责任心，做点实实在在的东西出来，别尼玛整天吹填补国内空白，国际先进水平，打破外国垄断，结果到头来我们还是得买外国人的片子，经费已经骗了这么多，大家都发家致富了，该干点正事了

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please post your source on Chinese article in the future, since a good % of Chinese articles online are just not trustworthy. It looks like a blogger wrote this.

Both of you are correct. It's true that China is still under arms embargo, but a lot of the components in the high tech field are dual use. They could be used for military purposes but still aren't on the list. Another thing is that technology advances too quickly and governments are slow. For example, if some small cheap semiconductor component can be used to replace high end gyroscopes used in missiles, it would be on the embargo list for NK. But in real life, it might take a few years before governments update the list and put it into effect.

But as for China, the problem isn't that they can't make the component like NK, since China is a very large country with a very solid industrial foundation, but rather not experienced enough in certain fields to produce as high quality or to make it cheaply as western counterparts. This is when outsourcing happens.

Speaking from personal experience, academic falsification is definitely higher in China than in the west. The supervision system there isn't as mature. Many academics do it for funds and personal monetary gains. So Tyrone's point is valid, by buying a few components from abroad and claim the whole system to be 100% indigneous is highly possible. But it isn't as far cheating the whole system by buying it completely from abroad. Cheating the government officials won't take you that far, because application science isn't art or history, it has to be physically used. If you can't mass produce the components and effectively integrate the system, you will be exposed/fired sooner or later.

We have to understand that China is advancing very quickly and is catching up in all fields of technology. Those money driven quantitative advancements will eventually lead to qualitative changes in its core. There indeed are a lot of corruption and academic frauds out there, but as the country advances to a more developed and mature society/system, the prevalence of those cases will lessen.

TyroneG said:

If China capable of making all those components, its GDP should already surpass US already instead of slightly more than half of US's. They still have a long way to go.

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So what's stopping China from overtaking the US in GDP, "if" they didn't make all those components? Remember China's economy is mostly based on exports, while the US is mostly imports and spending, therefore China has tons of room and potential to not just surpass the US but beyond it.

Sheer GDP doesn't mean anything. It's what you can do, not the abstract number. Plus, these days GDP are so irrelevant to the actual economy.

Guys, let's stay on topic.

TyroneG said:

Actually a lot of Chinese Defense equipment makers are "Cheating" money from the Government or PLA. They claim their products are "Indegenious made" but majority of components on their system are foreign origin.

So, Chinese government and PLA got fooled and cheated, unaware of the situation. This Beidou system is an example of that.

If I were the PLA or government I would setup technical review group to examine contractor's products, if their critical components are foreign origin, then they would be disqualified.

Click to expand...

Where in the world did you get that idea and do you have any evidence in this claim? Like all your other claims? Seriously... I am wondering why you hated the Chinese so much that you are spreading all these rumors everywhere. From unreal records from inaccurate sources and now making up stories?

And I am wondering why you are even allowed to post all these nonsense and lies... I seldom get this emotional but reading all these lies and many more make me wonder what is your motives here? Trolling so as to get a laugh?

China's domestic navigation system guides Pakistan
(Xinhua) May 23, 2014


NANJING, May 22 -- China's domestically made Beidou navigation system has set up a network in Pakistan, the first in a foreign country, the company said Thursday.

Beidou was co-developed by China Great Wall Industry Corporation and the Beijing UniStrong Science& Technology Co., Ltd. The first stage of Pakistan's geographic positioning network has been finished, Shen Jun, chief scientist of UniStrong, said at the annual China Satellite Navigation Conference in Nanjing.

The network includes five base stations and one processing center, covering Karachi. It can provide positioning with a precision of 2 centimeters, while the precision can reach 5 millimeters after post processing, and can help in urban planning, surveying and mapping, environmental supervision, disaster relief, traffic monitoring and other fields.

Shen Jun said the second stage of the network will cover the whole of Pakistan and be the first national high precision Beidou navigation network abroad