A look inside the Chinese Beidou system receiver

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
The drive for autarchy (full self-sufficiency) is an idiot's quest. It bespeaks of either failure of foreign policy, or failure of understanding of economics, most likely both. One of the most basic principle of economics is expressed by Richardo's law of comparative advantage. It in effect says social wealth is maximized only if each party restrict itself to producing only that in which it enjoys the greatest comparative advantage in efficiency, and trade for everything else it needs.

This is why successful countries don't put itself in the situation that requires it to produce everything it needs for defence itself. Countries which strive for total self sufficiency in defence during peacetime, like the USSR and Nazi germany, or North Korea, tend to be diplomatic or economic failures.

Wrong.

All depends on the parts are critical or not. If parts non ciritcal and it can easily do themselves then outsourceing is OK.
 

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
if by what some of you folks would say, then China should continue to outsource Russian Engines. That's easiest way and everybody is happy.

Again, that's wrong and it's not happening.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
this is a military not a commercial related site, so everythings are related to national security issue.
Looks like you talking general economy. No.

Military procurement is balancing security and economics, so general economics does apply. That is what the military industrial complex is after all.

Whether the foreign sourced sub components is essential or not and whether the indigenous industry can produce it is another matter. Also,unless the PLA is wholesale relying on western produced computing systems without modification, then it's very difficult for them to be sabotaged. Things like puny navigation radars onboard submarines or actuators doesn't exactly jeopardize national security.


So what you listed above are not good candidates for saying the PLA is not capable procuring fully indigenous subcomponents but rather the PLA is sourcing various sub components from foreign suppliers, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
if by what some of you folks would say, then China should continue to outsource Russian Engines. That's easiest way and everybody is happy.

Again, that's wrong and it's not happening.

Um no, it depends whether the indigenous industry can build competitive performing and competitively priced products. For instance, if a hypothetical J-10C can either choose to mount WS-10B or an unrated Al-31F, and if the latter has much superior performance and is cheaper and can be acquired reliably, then PLAAF should go for the Russian engines, especially if the differential in performance is very great

Also, engines can only be procured from a single rare source for the PLA, whereas the various subcomponents you listed can be sourced from a far wider variety of vendors.
 

Lion

Senior Member
for US, the general rule of thumb is outsource somethings that it can do easily. Somethings that are less in advance of what it already has.

for China the case is different, it outsource to somethings that it can't make themselves, very much like the import of foreign engines for its planes.

You mixing things up with your own perception. Even for the aero engine. China has the WS-10 engine but still opts to buy AL-31 engines. Does that means cutting off Russian AL-31 source , China air fleet will be doomed? No, rather. It will speed up China engine production more but at a higher cost.

Anothe analogy is western believe arm embargo will stop China military advance but does it really has a inverse effect? The Europe has one even consider lifting the embargo becos even without their help, China can still make those component. Why not earn some much sought after fund from China?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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The US for years had propellant for Hellfire missiles made in China when the US is very capable of doing it themselves. The US demands Chinese rare earths for important military components when the US is very capable of producing it themselves? The US claims Chinese counterfeits are being used in military hardware. If it were really counterfeit, why hasn't it been exposed as the national security Chinese infiltration threat seen as a violation of US national sovereignty which is an act of war? The truth is probably much like Donald Trump complaining about outsourcing to China when he knows his own signature line of products are made in China. There's no crime because Americans would've had to okayed it for it to happen in the first place. If it were truly a national security threat why do all these parties conspire with the Chinese to commit these crimes and none have been arrested?

So how come China doesn't see this as a national security threat is probably it's not.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
for US, the general rule of thumb is outsource somethings that it can do easily. Somethings that are less in advance of what it already has.

for China the case is different, it outsource to somethings that it can't make themselves, very much like the import of foreign engines for its planes.

Wrong. Totally wrong.

That is a misconception... and there is no general rule of thumb here.

China and US are the same, they have the capability to design and manufactured almost anything, but they still choose to outsource because it is cheaper, faster and more economically feasible. Please don't think it is China, means that they cannot do things themselves, whatever they had done is either copy, reverse engineered, stolen or whatever. If you carry on having that mindset... I wouldn't be surprise that one fine they you will find yourself at the bottom of the food chain.
 

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Wrong. Totally wrong.

That is a misconception... and there is no general rule of thumb here.

China and US are the same, they have the capability to design and manufactured almost anything, but they still choose to outsource because it is cheaper, faster and more economically feasible. Please don't think it is China, means that they cannot do things themselves, whatever they had done is either copy, reverse engineered, stolen or whatever. If you carry on having that mindset... I wouldn't be surprise that one fine they you will find yourself at the bottom of the food chain.

Keep in mind, Opinion is subjective.

Can you give an example of product US outsrourcing to another country that it Cannot possibly do on its own?
 

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Military procurement is balancing security and economics, so general economics does apply. That is what the military industrial complex is after all.

Whether the foreign sourced sub components is essential or not and whether the indigenous industry can produce it is another matter. Also,unless the PLA is wholesale relying on western produced computing systems without modification, then it's very difficult for them to be sabotaged. Things like puny navigation radars onboard submarines or actuators doesn't exactly jeopardize national security.


So what you listed above are not good candidates for saying the PLA is not capable procuring fully indigenous subcomponents but rather the PLA is sourcing various sub components from foreign suppliers, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.


You can tell that to the US government. Even Huawei and ZTE commercial products, US government has no solid evidences of actual hacking but they were banned outright inside US and Australia Market.
 

TyroneG

Banned Idiot
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The US for years had propellant for Hellfire missiles made in China when the US is very capable of doing it themselves. The US demands Chinese rare earths for important military components when the US is very capable of producing it themselves? The US claims Chinese counterfeits are being used in military hardware. If it were really counterfeit, why hasn't it been exposed as the national security Chinese infiltration threat seen as a violation of US national sovereignty which is an act of war? The truth is probably much like Donald Trump complaining about outsourcing to China when he knows his own signature line of products are made in China. There's no crime because Americans would've had to okayed it for it to happen in the first place. If it were truly a national security threat why do all these parties conspire with the Chinese to commit these crimes and none have been arrested?

So how come China doesn't see this as a national security threat is probably it's not.

Rare earth and Propellant are considered natural resources. Yes, you definitely want to get natural resources from others , just like Oil. They are not related to made parts.
 
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