055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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longmarch

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Asian in Chinese sense includes Indians, otherwise they would say East Asian. Russian or Aussies are not considered.

At the end of day, it's just US, China and USSR proven to be capable of making on their own. With Russia crippled, it's really just US and China now.
 
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Iron Man

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longmarch said:
Asian in Chinese sense includes Indians, otherwise they would say East Asian. Russian or Aussies are not considered.

At the end of day, it's just US, China and USSR proven to be capable of making on their own. With Russia crippled, it's really just US and China now.
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Well then what about Southeast Asian?
 
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Yodello

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Jeff Head said:
@FORBIN @Jura @bd popeye @Air Force Brat @vesicles @Obi Wan Russell

Well, I know that the Chinese are claiming that this is the largest surface combatant for Asian countries since World War II.

I know that the Russians/Sovets are considered both an Asian and Eurpean country and of course their Kirov and Slava cruiser class are larger.

Also, the US is a Pacific Ocean nation and the Zumwalt class is larger. Heck, the USS Long Beach, a nuclear powered cruiser was also larger at almost 16,000 tons. Admitedly the US is not an "Asian" country, but it is a Pacific country that has territories in Asia.

...and of course if you include the LHDs and carriers as surface combatants, then they are larger too.

There is no doubt that the Type 055 is a monumental achievement for the PLAN...but they need to be a little more circumspect about what they attribute to it at this point.

We shall know how good it is only after it has spent years at sa exercising with other vessels...and that is still several years off.

I expect it will do just fine. But I also know that the Burke IIAs and the Burke IIIs, the Atagos, the Se Jongs, and others, like the Ticonderoga and Zumwalts, would be their equal in a confrontation (which all of us hope never happens), and I would not want to go up against a Kirov or Slava one on one to this day in any other ship either, short of a carrier striking from hundreds of mile away.

Though if they had to, any of these vessels are capable.

All that said, as I have said several times...congratulations to the Chinese people and the PLAN on this achievement. it is truly monumental where they have come in the last 20 years. 20 year ago, in the late 1990s, the Chinese still operated the Type 51 as their principle destroyer class. Coming from that to this in this time frame is, as I said, monumental.
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Reading way too much into things and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Please, US is not an Asian Country, neither is Russia considered to be one. Trying to twist and make a merry-go-round observation where one isn't needed, only makes things more unnecessarily confusing and complicated. The Type 055 is, as you yourself acknowledged, a monumental achievement for the Chinese, and it will be one of the most powerful surface combatants against any opponent, even against the Zumwalt, if the Zumwalt can fix its problems and rely on its own propulsion rather than tugboats ( yes, no amount of blah blah, chest-thumping can erase the fact that the Zumwalt needed Tugboats to get through Panama Canal). And, yes the Type 055 is largest and most powerful single surface combatant built in Asia since WW2, with it's modern technology and construction methods, and it will probably be the most modern and powerful warship in the world within this decade (alongwith the Zumwalt, i.e if the lone Zumwalt can fix its problems). Period.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Iron Man said:
Obviously if a Chinese person says "Asian" they are not thinking of Americans or Russians (or even Australians or Indians). Also, "surface combatant" by definition excludes carriers, LHDs, and LPDs, and is restricted to describing battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, and corvettes. So understood in this light the 055 is in fact the largest Asian surface combatant built since WW2 (assuming its full displacement is around 12,000t).
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Yes, with such restrictions you can make anything mean almost anything else.

The fact is, the US has possessions in the area where islands such as Japan, the Philippines and others would reside in the Asian area. Russia is certainly an Asian country geographically.

So the Kirov and Slava cruisers have to be included.

In the US, the Zumwalt and Long Beach would have to be included. Heck, the complete refit of the Iowa class battleships and their modernization "could" be included.

This is not to down play what the Chinese accomplished with the Type 055. It is simply to bring some sanity to over zealous and misleading comments about them

They are GREAT ships, and they are going to be effective and along with the Type 052Ds, the mainstay of the powerful, modern emerging Chinese fleet. And the Chinese deserve recognition and congratulations on them...which I freely give.

But they are not the largest surface combatants built since World War II...in Asia or elsewhere.

...and as I have said...despite their size and their strong armaments...I will say the same for them as I would for any Burke, Se Jong, Ticonderoga, Holbart, Atago, Slava, Kirov, etc., or other modern, large surface combatant.

All of them are strong and capable...and any one of them going up against another...or in groups...would be liable to be sunk or heavily damaged when going up against the others. Particularly when you look at the likely scenarios that would involve any heavy confrontation and the other assets the nations we are talking about and their allies, would bring to the fore in such an engagement.

we should alll revel at the technology and the really tremendous naval technology we are getting to see...but then hope and pray that they all serve their purpose and serve to prevent warfare and keep these nations from risking it.

That is indeed the hope that I have and pray that it is so.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Yodello said:
Reading way too much into things and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Please, US is not an Asian Country, neither is Russia considered to be one. Trying to twist and make a merry-go-round observation where one isn't needed, only makes things more unnecessarily confusing and complicated. The Type 055 is, as you yourself acknowledged, a monumental achievement for the Chinese, and it will be one of the most powerful surface combatants against any opponent, even against the Zumwalt, if the Zumwalt can fix its problems and rely on its own propulsion rather than tugboats ( yes, no amount of blah blah, chest-thumping can erase the fact that the Zumwalt needed Tugboats to get through Panama Canal). And, yes the Type 055 is largest and most powerful single surface combatant built in Asia since WW2, with it's modern technology and construction methods, and it will probably be the most modern and powerful warship in the world within this decade (alongwith the Zumwalt, i.e if the lone Zumwalt can fix its problems). Period.
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As I said t Iron man...with restriction you an make anything mean anything else.

The fact is, the Zumwalt is now commissioned and working just fine...and the second one is preparing to launch to be followed by the 3rd. One of those two is likely to be the first major surface combatant launched with a rail gun armament...and it will most likely be 155mm rail gun.

IMHO...and that is all that it is... you should take you own advise when making such statements.

The Type 055 is sure to go through its own trials, and there will probably be some issues (which we may never hear about) as all new systems have...which is why they do all the trials.

I have been involve in the development of large naval systems and their bringing to commissioning and use...both aircraft ad vessels...in my career.

My response to Iron man here: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/type-055-ddg-large-destroyer-thread.t6480/page-372#post-461708 suffices for you too.

As I said again, I congratulate the Chinese and they deserve it.

But your own comments about the incident with the Zumwalt make my point...and only serve to reflect back on your own comments regarding merry-go-round statements. It is the kettle calling the pot black.

Which is why that what is good for the goose...is also good for the gander.

With all that said...as I stated, and did so sincerely...congratulations to the Chinese...not only on the Type 055, but on their entire phenomenal Naval buildup over the last 15 years.
 
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PanAsian

Major
Whenever the 055's and the 001A are actually commissioned the real interesting thing to see would be more and more sophisticated PLAN SAG, CSG, and ARG exercises, especially combined arms ones involving ground forces and land based aircraft. While these are nice assets for far seas operations they are also crucial additions for near seas defense up through the first island chain.
 
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