055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Blitzo]

Then this is news to me.

Fair enough.

If that's really all you're saying, then it's a statement similar to "China would prefer domestic engines to foreign engines given similar parameters" in obviousness. Why even talk about it, then? Sure, if the Ukraine were overrun by Russia, China may actually think about changing plans WRT DN-80 and thus 055 procurement. That would have been a most stunning feat of logical deduction by China.

What has been under discussion is definitively NOT that. What you were trying to imply earlier was that without any obvious likelihood of DN-80 shortage, China would have halted, delayed and/or modified plans regarding 055 procurement simply because it was a foreign DN-80 that was being used rather than a domestic QC-280. That is why I brought up the fighter programs with their mass purchases of AL-31Fs despite being foreign engines with absolutely NO concurrent evidence of slowdown in any of the fighter programs that depend on this foreign engine.

Yes... but in my original few posts when I entered this discussion I did also say that I didn't necessarily agree with the original statements by steve rolfe or shen regarding 055 development being dependent on QC-280.

All I offered was just a caveat that even though 055 development probably wasn't dependent on QC-280, I did think the availability or lack of availability of QC-280 would still have impacted the plans and projections for 055, in procurement and possibly development.

 

[Iron Man]

I did think the availability or lack of availability of QC-280 would still have impacted the plans and projections for 055, in procurement and possibly development.

Well then this is where we will just have to disagree.

 

[Blitzo]

Well then this is where we will just have to disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[Jura The idiot]

...

All I offered was just a caveat that even though 055 development probably wasn't dependent on QC-280, I did think the availability or lack of availability of QC-280 would still have impacted the plans and projections for 055, in procurement and possibly development.

both main points are interesting; to me, they seemed to be

... What you were trying to imply earlier was that without any obvious likelihood of DN-80 shortage, China would have halted, delayed and/or modified plans regarding 055 procurement simply because it was a foreign DN-80 that was being used rather than a domestic QC-280. ...

/

... even though 055 development probably wasn't dependent on QC-280, I did think the availability or lack of availability of QC-280 would still have impacted the plans and projections for 055, in procurement and possibly development.

I guess what matters is the propulsion problem has been solved by China (I've read they're able to produce about twenty QC280 per year!), contrary to the Russians who have several hulls in the water and not even the testing facility for turbines built ... (they like started in Spring of 2014; pictures (I mean if you don't read Russian) inside

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... now:

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EDIT plus let me state the obvious which is propulsion it's not just turbines:
Aug 5, 2016

... I've read in Russian Internet at one point strong enough turbine(s) almost certainly can be obtained from Rybinsk

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but likely a bigger problem is going to be the reduction gear(s) ... the task for Saint Petersburg

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I mean it all then critically depends on tiny components, and for me that's a typical example for
If Something May Fail, It Will

 

[davidau]

055 guided missile cruiser being constructed at JNCX shipyard...

• bow fore section...
  
  

• aft section...
  
  

• 

• Using ps, the comparison of 055 & 052D, one can see the vast difference in length, hence tonnage..

 

[Iron Man]

The almagamated CGI of the 055 plus an added finished bow comes to 430 pixels. The 052D is 364 pixels. Based on a 052D length of 156m, the 055 CGI is 184m in length. I think this will be fairly close to the final length of the 055, plus/minus a few meters. A ship with a length of ~184m and beam of 20-21m will easily make 12,000 to 13,000 tons displacement.

 

[asif iqbal]

It will be real heavy hitter !

 

[delft]

Then this is news to me. That still leaves J15s and J-20s, both dual-engined fighters, still using AL-31Fs though.


If that's really all you're saying, then it's a statement similar to "China would prefer domestic engines to foreign engines given similar parameters" in obviousness. Why even talk about it, then? Sure, if the Ukraine were overrun by Russia, China may actually think about changing plans WRT DN-80 and thus 055 procurement. That would have been a most stunning feat of logical deduction by China.

What has been under discussion is definitively NOT that. What you were trying to imply earlier was that without any obvious likelihood of DN-80 shortage, China would have halted, delayed and/or modified plans regarding 055 procurement simply because it was a foreign DN-80 that was being used rather than a domestic QC-280. That is why I brought up the fighter programs with their mass purchases of AL-31Fs despite being foreign engines with absolutely NO concurrent evidence of slowdown in any of the fighter programs that depend on this foreign engine.

There is an obvious difference in the reliability of Russia and of Ukraine. The second is in many respects a basket case with large influence of US. China doesn't like to be dependent on a country dependent on US.

 

[Blitzo]

055 guided missile cruiser being constructed at JNCX shipyard...

• bow fore section...
  
  

• aft section...
  
  

• 

• Using ps, the comparison of 055 & 052D, one can see the vast difference in length, hence tonnage..

Nice, though I already posted this a few pages back in post #2324

One thing to note is that the merged 055s next to the 052D are a few pixels longer than only the hull sections themselves because the merged 055 has left a small gap in between the hulls.

So to assess the 055s potential length we should instead measure the length of the two sections separately and add them together, which is how I did so in my post before. Of course the bow section in this satellite photo is also incomplete so it is like the real thing will be a few good meters longer as well then the bow+ stern length

 

[taxiya]

There is an obvious difference in the reliability of Russia and of Ukraine. The second is in many respects a basket case with large influence of US. China doesn't like to be dependent on a country dependent on US.

The US behind Ukraine factor is the key point that Iron Man has overlooked IMO. So no, DN-80 imported from Ukraine is not reliable at all. Building large number of destroyers based on imported power plant is too risky. Only when DN-80 is fully domestically built or its indigenous counterpart is ready, would it be wise to ramp up the production.