054B/new generation frigate

Jaym said:

Economic sustainability is a weapon in war as well as a tool in peace. Im not saying replace the existing warship classes just create another experimental class to test the concept.

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I certainly think you can indeed make very combat-capable platforms while having extra features. Italian PPAs come to mind. I'm not averted to that concept personally either.

However, PLAN has a need to make frigates as cheap as possible due to the sheer number of hulls they build. A notional, say, 10% increase in unit cost for 40~50 hulls would sum up to a cost of 4~5 hulls.

Everything just comes down to the economics of scale. Said 10% increase in unit cost is far more acceptable across three hulls than 40~50. For the same money, said extra costs can be spent on building dedicated ships like hospital ships or extra amphibious ships. Those would be far more capable than just some extra space on frigates spread across dozens of ships.

It's just that PLAN is a much larger navy and is backed by an immense shipbuilding & maintenance industrial base that it is more economical for them to build highly dedicated platforms rather than having extra features built in fewer platforms.

Jaym said:

Ppl here seem to be saying that a warship designed to have modular multi mission compartments will always be inferior in battle.

I believe this doesnt always have to be the case. I think modular compartments if done right may bring an element of economic sustainability to the PLAN which will have benefits in peace time as well as war time.

The Danish and the other European modular ship designs may just need to be improved. Does not mean modularity is a bad concept. I think the PLAN has the resources to experiment with this concept in its ship designs.

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The problem with modularity for military equipment has always been that by choosing to add one capability to the platform, you basically always going to be removing another. As an example, choosing to lose some minesweeping capability in order to gain some ASW capability is a choice that can backfire spectacularly, even if the capabilities themselves are comparable to a purpose-built platform. Coupled with potential friction involved with physically changing the modules, and you end up with a situation where it rarely makes sense to bother with modularity unless you are severely constrained in terms of the size and number of platforms you can buy.

Jaym said:

Economic sustainability is a weapon in war as well as a tool in peace. Im not saying replace the existing warship classes just create another experimental class to test the concept.

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There are currently no rumours about what the next class of frigate will look like or whether it would pursue a "modular" approach.

There is no need to start discussions about hypotheticals when there are no rumours indicative of it, and especially when the rationale for it is not overwhelmingly obvious (as others have said, the PLAN being made up of a large fleet of ships means that ship types can afford to be more specialized, while in European navies as they possess ships which are smaller in number they may require them to be more "modular").


The answer to your original question is "sure, maybe, but we have no reason to believe the tradeoffs of a more modular frigate would be attractive to them".

charles18 said:

Can a type 054B frigate launch YJ-21 missiles?
I'm sure the "engineering department" can figure out a way to swap out the current VLS cells for some larger ones.
So long as there's 9 meters of space below the deck then it is possible.
When WW3 happens, serious consideration will be given to unconventional ideas that under normal circumstances would be dismissed.

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Remember that there are also 50-ish destroyers with UVLS.

In a high intensity conflict in Westpac, we can expect those frigates and destroyers to be operating together, and there to always be destroyers available if YJ-21 are needed. I've seen a 1500km range and a terminal velocity of Mach 10 quoted for the YJ-21

AndrewS said:

Remember that there are also 50-ish destroyers with UVLS.

In a high intensity conflict in Westpac, we can expect those frigates and destroyers to be operating together, and there to always be destroyers available if YJ-21 are needed. I've seen a 1500km range and a terminal velocity of Mach 10 quoted for the YJ-21

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Slight correction: There is only 30+ DDGs with UVLS cells in the PLAN today (25+1/2 active 052D/DGs and 8 active 055s), not 50-ish.

Though, that number should be achievable by the end of this decade.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Slight correction: There is only 30+ DDGs with UVLS cells in the PLAN today (25+1/2 active 052D/DGs and 8 active 055s), not 50-ish.

Though, that number should be achievable by the end of this decade.

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It's 50-ish if you include the destroyers which are visually confirmed as under construction. I'd expect them all to be in service by 2026

AndrewS said:

It's 50-ish if you include the destroyers which are visually confirmed as under construction. I'd expect them all to be in service by 2026

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Unlikely, given that there are about 2-3 052DGs of the latest 10 batch that are still very much in the hull module assembly stage. Plus, there is an additional 3 052DGs to the current latest batch of 10 as well.

Let alone that only 4 055s are visually confirmed at this point (and only 2 were launched), although the overall claimed number of the latest 055 batch is 7-8.

2027-2028 is a much safer bet.

totenchan said:

The problem with modularity for military equipment has always been that by choosing to add one capability to the platform, you basically always going to be removing another. As an example, choosing to lose some minesweeping capability in order to gain some ASW capability is a choice that can backfire spectacularly, even if the capabilities themselves are comparable to a purpose-built platform. Coupled with potential friction involved with physically changing the modules, and you end up with a situation where it rarely makes sense to bother with modularity unless you are severely constrained in terms of the size and number of platforms you can buy.

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Apparently people dont realize that real war involves a battle of economics as much if not more than actual battles. Im saying that modularity might actually might make each ship more powerful... almost like adding an extra missile battery.

and many of those specialized hulls are useless in peace. Im not saying stop building specialized hulls. Just consider investing in multi mission cabability.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Unlikely, given that there are about 2-3 052DGs of the latest 10 batch that are still very much in the hull module assembly stage. Plus, there is an additional 3 052DGs to the current latest batch of 10 as well.

Let alone that only 4 055s are visually confirmed at this point (and only 2 were launched), although the overall claimed number of the latest 055 batch is 7-8.

2027-2028 is a much safer bet.

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Is Wiki wrong (not that I'd be surprised if it is)? It says there are a total of 38 052Ds under various stages of service/construction. Plus the 12 055s.

Though yeah, don't think they can all be in service before 2028.

Miyayaya said:

Is Wiki wrong (not that I'd be surprised if it is)? It says there are a total of 38 052Ds under various stages of service/construction. Plus the 12 055s.

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No, not really. There are indeed 10 052DGs of the latest batch that have been visually confirmed to be under construction/fitting out/sea trials as of present, plus 3 additional units claimed.

The 4 new 055s are also visually confirmed. However, the overall 7-8 figure claim for the 2nd batch 055 cannot be fully confirmed at present.

I don't often refer much to Wikipedia regarding this matter.