US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan

Well, what you always hear is that China's military is no match to Japan or the West. So no one should be alarmed by China's military if it can be defeated so easily. If the West saw the economic might in the 80s of its ally, Japan, as more evil than the Soviet Empire, then I think the Chinese have the right to view Japan as a potential aggressor in the future since they lie about their atrocities of the past to their children today. It's hypocritical to claim Japan's neighbors are aggressive when Japan constantly allies itself with the West who commits to military offensive actions and sometimes based on lies, i.e Iraq and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Japan not directly getting involved doesn't mean it "peaceful." Some might call that cowardly since the government never questions American or British actions.

EternalVigil said:

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Lets just say I am in the USAF and have been stationed in Japan and Guam. The japanese almost torpedoed the sub that ventured into their waters. That is a fact and if you were ever stationed in Japan in the US or Japanese militaries during the incident you would know.

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Please read this article on the submarine incident:


Quoting from the article:
Defense Agency Director General Yoshinori Ono told reporters that the P-3C aircraft demanded the submarine to surface and show its flag, or leave Japanese waters after the sub had already left Japanese territoriy.

We do not dispute Japan's right to demand foreign submarines within its EEZ to identity itself or leave immediately. Since the PLAN sub had already left Japanese territorial waters, it was in compliance with the JMSDF demand.

So what makes you think "the japanese almost torpedoed the sub"? The JMSDF did not demand the sub to surface or be fired upon. Their demands were to surface or get out, as reported by General Ono. The Japanese government demanded an apology from the PRC for the intrusion and did receive one within the week. So what's the problem?

netspider said:

No, what matters is the balance of armed forces in East Asia......

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I doubt very much that the PLAAF will suddenly stop purchasing/developing more advanced fighters as soon as it receives "parity" with the JSDF. Realistically it will push for superiority. And as I have been told by members of this and other boards, China will push eventually to have aircraft carriers even if Japan doesn't operate them. Either China cares about regional opinion/power balance or it doesn't.

KYli said:

Last time I check you got US station in your country.

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And the relevance of you raising that is?

I guess when Japan rearming for its' military is call peaceful defence. When China buying some weapon is calling threat to the world.

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Oh really, you don't have a sense of humour at all, do you?

FuManChu said:

I doubt very much that the PLAAF will suddenly stop purchasing/developing more advanced fighters as soon as it receives "parity" with the JSDF. Realistically it will push for superiority. And as I have been told by members of this and other boards, China will push eventually to have aircraft carriers even if Japan doesn't operate them. Either China cares about regional opinion/power balance or it doesn't.

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No one doubt that China will eventually have aircraft carriers, but Japan is also building their Navy more powerful. The new destroyer and mini carriers are much more powerful than China had. So it is illogical to say that China should stop any building up of military when China is still consider weaken than Japan. Honorly, I think the arm race in Asia have already start, Japan, Korea and China or even US are each trying to build up their force in Asia. I don't see any hope of sudden stop of this process.

And the relevance of you raising that is?

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US is still strictly control Japan both military and world political, Japan do not have their say in the matter of any international conflict if it is involved the US. Japan could only side with US in any major conflict. US is the protector of Japan, so any Japan move to start a war have to have US consent. So how do Japan not be peaceful, when US strictly contain Japan into a position that they could only fellow US lead. Actually, since Japan is strong support and help of all of US conflicts, this will also mean Japan share the responsible as aggressor as US. At the end, Japan is not peaceful at its' will.

Oh really, you don't have a sense of humour at all, do you?

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I do have a sense of humour, but I use it up with friends. So I am rather not take your china threat theory as humour . Since this will lead to misunderstanding.




BTW FUMANCHU I would not post any reply for this thread, if you have anything to say please PM me or you could post things in AFM Forum. I personally don't care for getting banned, but rather not affect some of the members here.

FuManChu said:

1. "Japanese" isn't a country.
2. Japan has far less of an offensive/first-strike capability than its neighbours.
3. Japan is a peaceful nation that hasn't started a war for 60 years, unlike many of its neighbours.

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historical japan attemped numerous invasion of Korea this is not the act of a peace loving nation

FuManChu said:

Indeed. The JASDF needs some kind of offensive capability with its assets, otherwise it would make retaking territory in case of an attack impossible. At the end of the day Japan still has no real offensive capability anywhere near what China, North Korea, Russia or the US has..

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right now japans navy is the most powerful one in asia ( discount US) their nuclear capability is well in advance of North korea the H-2 rocket can also be converted into ICBM

FuManChu said:

I guess when China's buying Sovs from Russia it's merely "upgrading its forces for peaceful defence", but when Japan buys anything more complex than an electric toothbrush it's a sign they're rearming for another invasion of the mainland

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Give me a break look at the japanese is safe to assume that the chinese are no where near as powerful as their are and never will be a good deal into the future

swimmerXC said:

NOTICE: STICK TO THE TOPIC OF "US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan" AND NOT VENTURE OFF INTO JAPANESE HISTORY OR POLITCS, ANYMORE; THAT MEANS NO MORE ANSWERING QUOTES FROM POSTS BEFORE THIS! FAILURE TO FOLLOW THIS... GO LOOK AT THE WARNING LIST OR BAN LIST! :nono:

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Swimmer dude ..you put the hammer down! And rightly so I may add..We must learn to behave like gentlemen and stay on topic...

Personally I do see the JSDAF buying about 24 F-22's in full configuatrion> I think that because they have fully operational P-3's, and Aegis systems among others. So why not F-22's..One more thing they won't need any F-22's for training. The USAF will provide that in the US as necessary..Just my opinion.

Hi KYli,

So we both think there is a chance the US could sell F-22s to Japan, but ...

KYli said:

Well I agreed there is chance that US is willing to sell F22 to Japan, but I think it is more likely not going to happen soon.
1. Since Japan would probably only buying 20-30 of F22, it does not have much effect to prolong the operation of production line. So for US, its' main objective will be profit.

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Well, that is just my point. Since the production line will be closing down at the latest by 2010, and the last of the long lead items must be purchased well in advance of the end of production, Japan and the US MUST decide by around 2008 on whether or not Japan will recieve any F-22s. Once the production line is shut down, it makes no business sense to reopen it for a 20-30 plane order, say 10 yrs down the road. We will know the answer by the latest 2008.

2. US might need to take into conderation for other allied such as Britain, Germany, South Korea and Australia. If Japan is offer the F22, that will not look good for US. Other US allied will ask why they can't buy it too.

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I just have to disagree with here--I don't think any of those countries will feel 'left out' or 'dissed' or anything like that. In fact, most if not all of them would consider the F-22s price tag far too steep, not to mention its capabilities for the most part unnecessary for their militaries.

3. US consider F22 as their prime air superior Fighter, and F35 as an export and mass produce secondary fighter. If f22 is on sell, will it have effect on the export of F35. (Eventhrough F22 might not have much edge over F35 anymore, but f35 also have major price increase recently and you will get the F22 years before F35.)

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I agree with you that selling the F-22 to Japan could disuade them from purchasing F-35s, but as already mentioned here there are truely nearly a dozen countries currently involved in the JSF and most of those will purchase it. The JSFs sales will hardly be dented by Japan buying two dozen F-22s, and after all, Lockheed makes both aircraft, so they get a piece of the pie either way.

4. The high level of US military might have security concern, they might feel uncomfortable to sell F22.

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I agree 100%--they may decide it is just too risky to sell to anybody. Definitely the biggest hurdle to foreign sales of the Raptor.

5. US might need to take into consideration of balance of power in Asia, if US offer F22 to Japan, it may creates a new arm race.

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very valid point, I am sure the US govt. realizes both Russia and especially China will have big issues with such a sale. I hope they think this issue thoroughly through.

6. Japan might not want an expensive fighters if they are getting a downgrade version. Lately, Japan do tends to want to be more self reliable, they might try to make new fighter with help from US.

7. US might want to offer other fighters to Japan.

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I also agree here. Japan will be considering very seriously the F-35 and a version of the F-15 similiar to what Singapore has chosen with all the latest avionics gizmos. Japan will also be offered the Eurofighter and possibly Rafael when it formally requests proposals, but due to political considerations a US design is obviously at the forefront.

Hi Walter

Well, that is just my point. Since the production line will be closing down at the latest by 2010, and the last of the long lead items must be purchased well in advance of the end of production, Japan and the US MUST decide by around 2008 on whether or not Japan will recieve any F-22s. Once the production line is shut down, it makes no business sense to reopen it for a 20-30 plane order, say 10 yrs down the road. We will know the answer by the latest 2008.

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True, but not totally. Your point is this is the best time since the production line will shut down soon. My point is even Japan will buy some F22, it could not prolong much time. So why not wait ten years, that will be good time since US maybe willing to sell to more countries. That the production line may run longer and make more profit for US. Open up the prodution line maybe expensive, but if there are enough consumers, why not.

I just have to disagree with here--I don't think any of those countries will feel 'left out' or 'dissed' or anything like that. In fact, most if not all of them would consider the F-22s price tag far too steep, not to mention its capabilities for the most part unnecessary for their militaries.

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The problem is many countries have ask for F22, but has turn down by US. Such as Israel, they might feel offence.