US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan

walter · Feb 22, 2006

KYli said:
F22 is the best air superior fighter in US stockpile, I doubt US is willing to sell this state of art weapon anytime soon. Maybe 10-20 years later, but definite not anytime soon.

One of the reasons a decision must be made soon (next 2-3 yrs.) on a foreign sale fo the F-22 is because production is currently only scheduled to continue through 2008, and might be extended through 2010 until F-35 production ramps up. Once that production line is down, probably the only thing that could open it up again is a full scale war with for example China (of course I don't think that will happen). This is why in 10-20 yrs. it is 95% certain nobody will be buying F-22s, not even USAF. If Japan wants it and the US wants to sell it, we will know at the latest by the end of 2008.

KYli · Feb 22, 2006

walter said:
One of the reasons a decision must be made soon (next 2-3 yrs.) on a foreign sale fo the F-22 is because production is currently only scheduled to continue through 2008, and might be extended through 2010 until F-35 production ramps up. Once that production line is down, probably the only thing that could open it up again is a full scale war with for example China (of course I don't think that will happen). This is why in 10-20 yrs. it is 95% certain nobody will be buying F-22s, not even USAF. If Japan wants it and the US wants to sell it, we will know at the latest by the end of 2008.

Well I agreed there is chance that US is willing to sell F22 to Japan, but I think it is more likely not going to happen soon.
1. Since Japan would probably only buying 20-30 of F22, it does not have much effect to prolong the operation of production line. So for US, its' main objective will be profit.

2. US might need to take into conderation for other allied such as Britain, Germany, South Korea and Australia. If Japan is offer the F22, that will not look good for US. Other US allied will ask why they can't buy it too.

3. US consider F22 as their prime air superior Fighter, and F35 as an export and mass produce secondary fighter. If f22 is on sell, will it have effect on the export of F35. (Eventhrough F22 might not have much edge over F35 anymore, but f35 also have major price increase recently and you will get the F22 years before F35.)

4. The high level of US military might have security concern, they might feel uncomfortable to sell F22.

5. US might need to take into consideration of balance of power in Asia, if US offer F22 to Japan, it may creates a new arm race.

6. Japan might not want an expensive fighters if they are getting a downgrade version. Lately, Japan do tends to want to be more self reliable, they might try to make new fighter with help from US.

7. US might want to offer other fighters to Japan.

The_Zergling · Feb 22, 2006

KYli said:
2. US might need to take into conderation for other allied such as Britain, Germany, South Korea and Australia. If Japan is offer the F22, that will not look good for US. Other US allied will ask why they can't buy it too.

Well, since Britain and Germany are part of the Eurofighter program that's finally produced something, it's very unlikely they'd take orders of the F-22. South Korea's just got a batch of F-15Ks, so they're probably not going to spend any more on an aircraft which would perform the same role as their F-15s. I'm not sure about Australia's air force status, though.

KYli said:
3. US consider F22 as their prime air superior Fighter, and F35 as an export and mass produce secondary fighter. If f22 is on sell, will it have effect on the export of F35. (Eventhrough F22 might not have much edge over F35 anymore, but f35 also have major price increase recently and you will get the F22 years before F35.)

A legitimate point, however since deciding factors between getting F-35s or F-22s is most likely price, countries that have already decided on F-35s probably won't change their minds unless they suddenly have a HUGE economic boost.

But I agree that it would just be biting the US aircraft industry in the foot to put the two into competition.

KYli · Feb 22, 2006

The_Zergling said:
Well, since Britain and Germany are part of the Eurofighter program that's finally produced something, it's very unlikely they'd take orders of the F-22. South Korea's just got a batch of F-15Ks, so they're probably not going to spend any more on an aircraft which would perform the same role as their F-15s. I'm not sure about Australia's air force status, though.

Australia is getting 100 F35, but since the price has increase singnificate they may need to lower their order. Actually my point is the F22 hasn't been allow to sell to even US closest allied for many years, a sudden decision from US to sell it to Japan. May make many US allied such as Britain feel uncomfortable. You have to keep in mind many countries consider their political tie with US are above Japan.

tphuang · Feb 22, 2006

adeptitus said:
I'm curious as to why so many people think the Mitsubishi F-2 is a "failure"? As the result of the program, Japan did not have to import any F-16's from the US.

The unit cost of the aircraft isn't that much different from a F-16 block 60 or Mirage-2000-9 today. Like the F/A-22 and IDF, the order was reduced, but not cancelled. It's equipped with AESA radar and manufactuered mostly (except powerplant) in Japan as a replacement for the F-1.

As for possible F/A-22 sale to Japan, I'd point to the F-15J as an example, the Japanese will prolly receive downgraded vairants. Personally, I think Japan is better off using the $ on UCAV (unammed combat air vehicles) research. The Japanese electronics and robotics industry is very advanced, I think they'd excel at UCAV's instead of forking billions over to uncle sam.

I think the per unit cost of F-2 reached 100 million or something like that. That's about 20 million more than a block 60 and 40 million more than a 2K9. The reason that people are calling it a failure is due to its huge reduction in order for JASDF. According to some people, that's because F-2 wasn't performing up to expectations. In fact, the AESA radar is one of the biggest problem. Because the Japanese didn't have much experience producing fighter radar before this, JAPG-1 had a lot of relibility and performance issues.

EternalVigil · Feb 22, 2006

I personally do not care if we sell F-22's to Japan. I think that eventually the Japanese will buy the JSF because the US government really doesnt want to sell the F-22 to anyone. The F-22 is the most advanced fighter ever built and the JSF can not compete with it in an air to air role.

The reason the Japanese want this is because of escalating tensions with china. The chinese air force flys right up to the Japanese boarder and turns around just before crossing it to test Japans defenses. This has been completly documented by the US Navy and the JSDF. Also, a chinese sub entered Japanese waters and the Japanese detected them. The sub almost got torpedoed. Of coarse you didnt hear that in the chinese media because the culture is all about"face".Things could quickly spiral out of control in that region and Japan needs air dominance if the US isnt there to help.

The reason the US is on the Japanese side is because they are a democracy and are a very close ally of the US. The US and China could enjoy the same very close relationship with each other if one party communist rule was ever overthrown for democracy and the chinese people finally took complete control of thier destiny. Until then china sees the US as a foe and the US and her allies must prepare for an aggressive blunder on chinas part.

ahho · Feb 22, 2006

adeptitus said:
I'm curious as to why so many people think the Mitsubishi F-2 is a "failure"? As the result of the program, Japan did not have to import any F-16's from the US.

The unit cost of the aircraft isn't that much different from a F-16 block 60 or Mirage-2000-9 today. Like the F/A-22 and IDF, the order was reduced, but not cancelled. It's equipped with AESA radar and manufactuered mostly (except powerplant) in Japan as a replacement for the F-1.

As for possible F/A-22 sale to Japan, I'd point to the F-15J as an example, the Japanese will prolly receive downgraded vairants. Personally, I think Japan is better off using the $ on UCAV (unammed combat air vehicles) research. The Japanese electronics and robotics industry is very advanced, I think they'd excel at UCAV's instead of forking billions over to uncle sam.

but you have to consider that for that price, you can but a plane that is better than yours. Sometimes we call it a failure because of huge price tag but not same performance

EternalVigil · Feb 22, 2006

The JSF would probably be the best bet for Japan in terms of bang for the buck.
It costs less than the F-22,is stealthy, can outperform the F-16,F-18, F-15, and will be have options to be fitted with AMRAAM,FRAAM(ramjet missile), and the meteor(another ramjet missile).The F-22 does essentially all this but better. Probably not the best buy for Japan to be honest.

KYli · Feb 22, 2006

EternalVigil said:
I personally do not care if we sell F-22's to Japan. I think that eventually the Japanese will buy the JSF because the US government really doesnt want to sell the F-22 to anyone. The F-22 is the most advanced fighter ever built and the JSF can not compete with it in an air to air role.

The reason the Japanese want this is because of escalating tensions with china. The chinese air force flys right up to the Japanese boarder and turns around just before crossing it to test Japans defenses. This has been completly documented by the US Navy and the JSDF. Also, a chinese sub entered Japanese waters and the Japanese detected them. The sub almost got torpedoed. Of coarse you didnt hear that in the chinese media because the culture is all about"face".Things could quickly spiral out of control in that region and Japan needs air dominance if the US isnt there to help.

True, but US and Japan have doing it for longer than China. Since China only have the ability to penetrate that far recently. Do you know how many Spy planes visited China a day. Do you know how many subs and warship go through chinese territory without permision. And you never hear it because US think it is legal, they have the right to do anything but China don't. What you mean by chinese media never report it, well I find a lot information post in the newspaper and internet about the incident. But about the torpedoe I don't know, So you have some insider information that nobody know. Please enlight me.

The reason the US is on the Japanese side is because they are a democracy and are a very close ally of the US. The US and China could enjoy the same very close relationship with each other if one party communist rule was ever overthrown for democracy and the chinese people finally took complete control of thier destiny. Until then china see the US as a foe and the US and her allies must prepare for an aggressive blunder on chinas part.

Another China vs US message, do you ever get tired.

The democracy is one reason. The one party communist rule is another. The US want to be super power forever is the third. Different of view in the world is the forth. Different cultural would make it fifth. Different religious get it to sixth. Compete for resources will acheive the seventh. Challege world economic power definite do it for eight. World sole military power could only be one that go the ninth. Tibet cost the tenth. Taiwan let be the eleventh. since China have 54 enthnics split it into 10 pieces that will make it to twenty. China and US peace for forever, long live China Long live US. Well, maybe there will be no more China. So long live US.:rofl:

Kid, do not try to make US perfect or make China all bad. The world is not white or black. Good vs Evil is just a myth. So please stop making this kind of board statement. You will make a flame here.

EternalVigil · Feb 22, 2006

KYli said:
ME TOO.

True, but US and Japan have doing it for longer than China. Since China only have the ability to penetrate that far recently. Do you know how many Spy planes visited China a day. Do you know how many subs and warship go through chinese territory without permision. And you never hear it because US think it is legal, they have the right to do anything but China don't. What you mean by chinese media never report it, well I find a lot information post in the newspaper and internet about the incident. But about the torpedoe I don't know, So you have some insider information that nobody know. Please enlight me.

Another China vs US message, do you ever get tired.

The democracy is one reason. The one party communist rule is another. The US want to be super power forever is the third. Different of view in the world is the forth. Different cultural would make it fifth. Different religious get it to sixth. Compete for resources will acheive the seventh. Challege world economic power definite do it for eight. World sole military power could only be one that go the ninth. Tibet cost the tenth. Taiwan let be the eleventh. since China have 54 enthnics split it into 10 pieces that will make it to twenty. China and US peace for forever, long live China Long live US. Well, maybe there will be no more China. So long live US.:rofl:

Kid, do not try to make US perfect or make China all bad. The world is not white or black. Good vs Evil is just a myth. So please stop making this kind of board statement. You will make a flame here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just say I am in the USAF and have been stationed in Japan and Guam. The japanese almost torpedoed the sub that ventured into their waters. That is a fact and if you were ever stationed in Japan in the US or Japanese militaries during the incident you would know.You are the one name calling like an immature kid. The fact of the matter is the US would not care if china was a superpower like the US if the people ruled not a set up one party government also known as a dictatorship.The US has more ethnicities than china has and will ever have. That is a moot point.Good vs Evil is not a myth and China will not be allowed to bully Japan in the future. Take that for what its worth. I seem to remember another country that kept using past grievances(in terms of china its Yakusuni shrine and WW2 which is long over)to inflame and incite hard line nationalism. We see what all that led up to. All I am saying is China needs to cool their jets on Japan or WW3 could break out.

US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan

walter

Junior Member

KYli

Brigadier

The_Zergling

Junior Member

KYli

Brigadier

tphuang

Lieutenant General

EternalVigil

Banned Idiot

ahho

Junior Member

EternalVigil

Banned Idiot

KYli

Brigadier

EternalVigil

Banned Idiot