US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan

EternalVigil said:

I personally do not care if we sell F-22's to Japan. I think that eventually the Japanese will buy the JSF because the US government really doesnt want to sell the F-22 to anyone. The F-22 is the most advanced fighter ever built and the JSF can not compete with it in an air to air role.

The reason the Japanese want this is because of escalating tensions with china. The chinese air force flys right up to the Japanese boarder and turns around just before crossing it to test Japans defenses. This has been completly documented by the US Navy and the JSDF. Also, a chinese sub entered Japanese waters and the Japanese detected them. The sub almost got torpedoed. Of coarse you didnt hear that in the chinese media because the culture is all about"face".Things could quickly spiral out of control in that region and Japan needs air dominance if the US isnt there to help.

The reason the US is on the Japanese side is because they are a democracy and are a very close ally of the US. The US and China could enjoy the same very close relationship with each other if one party communist rule was ever overthrown for democracy and the chinese people finally took complete control of thier destiny. Until then china sees the US as a foe and the US and her allies must prepare for an aggressive blunder on chinas part.

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I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU LEARN WHAT COMMUNISM IS BEFORE POSTING :nono:

THE CHINESE PEOPLE IS NOT BEING ENSLAVED BY ANYONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!

RIGHT NOW THE US CONTINMENT OF CHINA IS ASIA IS FAILING THATS WHY THEY ARE DESPERAT TO ARMED THE JAPANESE WITH MORE WEAPON. THE JAPANESE NAVY IS THE MOST POWERFUL ASIAN NAVY RIGHT ONLY AND THE THIRD MOST POWERFUL NAVY IN THE WORLD THEY ARE IN NO DANGER OF INVASION FROM ANYONE.

AMERICANS HAVE CONDUCTED COUNTLESS SPY MISSION ON CHINA BEFORE DONT DONT SEE HOW FLYING CLOSE TO JAPAN WILL SUDDENLY CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER.

lLEARN MORE BEFORE YOU TALK:rofl:

EternalVigil said:

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Lets just say I am in the USAF and have been stationed in Japan and Guam. The japanese almost torpedoed the sub that ventured into their waters. That is a fact and if you were ever stationed in Japan in the US or Japanese militaries during the incident you would know.You are the one name calling like an immature kid. The fact of the matter is the US would not care if china was a superpower like the US if the people ruled not a set up one party government also known as a dictatorship.The US has more ethnicities than china has and will ever have. That is a moot point.Good vs Evil is not a myth and China will not be allowed to bully Japan in the future. Take that for what its worth. I seem to remember another country that kept using past grievances(in terms of china its Yakusuni shrine and WW2 which is long over)to inflame and incite hard line nationalism. We see what all that led up to. All I am saying is China needs to cool their jets on Japan or WW3 could break out.

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COUNTRY BASHING IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!!

nATIONALISM IN CHINA NOW IS NOT BEING FANED BY HTE GOVERNMENT IN FACT THEY ARE TRYING THE STOP IT. EXTREM NATIONALISM TYHAT CAUSED THE BOYCATE OF JAPANESE GOODS IS NOT GOOD FOR CURRENT RELATION WITH JAPAN.

A DICTORSHIP REFERS TO A GOVERNMENT REULED BY A DICTATOR !
TELL ME WHO IS THE DICTATOR OPF CHINA RGHT NOW:rofl:


JAPAN HAS A HISTORY OF ATTACKING OTHER NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

for some one in the USAF you seem to know pittyfuly little about military

the sub never went into "their" water the maing sub was in interational water at the time if the japanese chose to attack this is consider a act of agreesion
that will result in war with china

I am thakful you are not in command of japan right now

EternalVigil said:

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Lets just say I am in the USAF and have been stationed in Japan and Guam. The japanese almost torpedoed the sub that ventured into their waters. That is a fact and if you were ever stationed in Japan in the US or Japanese militaries during the incident you would know.You are the one name calling like an immature kid. The fact of the matter is the US would not care if china was a superpower like the US if the people ruled not a set up one party government also known as a dictatorship.The US has more ethnicities than china has and will ever have. That is a moot point.Good vs Evil is not a myth and China will not be allowed to bully Japan in the future. Take that for what its worth. I seem to remember another country that kept using past grievances(in terms of china its Yakusuni shrine and WW2 which is long over)to inflame and incite hard line nationalism. We see what all that led up to. All I am saying is China needs to cool their jets on Japan or WW3 could break out.

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Well, since I don't know, I have no knowlege what you said is true or not. I am not name calling, but I am probably older than you and the stuff you said is very immature.

The fact is US do care if China was a superpower like the US, because no superpower willing to share their power with others. The problem is US do mess with chinese internal affair including ethnics tension, I am not saying chinese has ethnics problems because of many ethnics groups.

China bully Japan, that is funniest thing I ever heard.:rofl: For the past few hundreds years Japan is bullying China, not the other way around.

The problem is The shrine worship War criminals, do european allow to worship Hitler. Can the Holocaulst be whitewash. You are playing double standard, just because you view China badly does not give the right for Japan to deny their past.

Nationalism is never a good thing, this go to every single nations in the world.

WWIII will only stop by the committed of the world, not china alone could acheive it.

Good or Evil is a myth, because every nations and every people judge things differently. Your standard view will not accept to everyone.

EternalVigil said:

The reason the US is on the Japanese side is because they are a democracy and are a very close ally of the US. The US and China could enjoy the same very close relationship with each other if one party communist rule was ever overthrown for democracy and the chinese people finally took complete control of thier destiny. Until then china sees the US as a foe and the US and her allies must prepare for an aggressive blunder on chinas part.

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can we please cut the bullshit and stupidity? Not that I'm hoping my breath for the second part. Last time I checked, US overthrew more democratically elected government than anyone else. And if you think democracy acertains good relationship with the US and vice versa (granted you're a dumbass), what's up with the US-Saudi relationship?

edited for spelling

guys, just try not to get into politics, okay? If you feel angry toward the Japanese, this is not the forum for it.

US leader should look back into the history and be really careful about what weapon they are selling to what country. In the past, US supported Afhanstaian, Iran and Iraq then later US had wars with them all. Japan was the country who bombed US's Pearl Habor without war declaration and it suffered two atomic bombs from US. Such hatred between two countries can be easily ignited if somethings happen in the future. Someday a weapon may be used against its manufacturer. Also consider the tensions between China and Japan, Russian and Japan, if a war breaks out between them, if one plane is shotdown or captured by the Chinese or Russian, US will lose many of their technology advantages. That's one reason why US has never sold their top-of-the-line weapons to Taiwan. I would say the F-22A sale will not happen any time soon, even the downgraded version.

netspider said:

US leader should look back into the history and be really careful about what weapon they are selling to what country. In the past, US supported Afhanstaian, Iran and Iraq then later US had wars with them all. Japan was the country who bombed US's Pearl Habor without war declaration and it suffered two atomic bombs from US. Such hatred between two countries can be easily ignited if somethings happen in the future. Someday a weapon may be used against its manufacturer. Also consider the tensions between China and Japan, Russian and Japan, if a war breaks out between them, if one plane is shotdown or captured by the Chinese or Russian, US will lose many of their technology advantages. That's one reason why US has never sold their top-of-the-line weapons to Taiwan. I would say the F-22A sale will not happen any time soon, even the downgraded version.

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This is an interesting point, but you have to examine each one separately. The US supported Afghanistan because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" despite the fact that the Afghanis weren't exactly the biggest fans of US foreign policy. They supported Iran and Iraq when it suited them, which may have been one of the reasons why the US is so resented in the Middle East. However though, I don't think it's accurate to compare Japan to Middle East countries.

For one thing, the US people understand the Japanese more, especially during the economy/infrastructure rebuilding of WW2, they understand the Japanese mindset much more than they would people of the Middle East. That's not necessarily guaranteeing they know what they're doing in Japan (they DEFINITELY didn't know what they were getting into supporting Afghanistan, Saddam, Iran...) but there is definitely a difference.

Where as you can see a strong American influence in Japanese culture nowadays, you definitely won't see that in Arab countries.

However, the possibility of an F-22 under Japanese control getting shot down and captured by Russian/Chinese forces is indeed an interesting idea.

Where as you can see a strong American influence in Japanese culture nowadays, you definitely won't see that in Arab countries.

However, the possibility of an F-22 under Japanese control getting shot down and captured by Russian/Chinese forces is indeed an interesting idea.

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Historically, Chinese have much more influence in Japanese culture than American. But how many wars Chinese and Japanese have fought? Japanese
first invaded Korea when China was in Tang Dynasty, from then, there are
at least seven wars initiated by Japanese. Japanese is indeed a very aggressive country. US should be really careful about who they are supporting.

In the 90s, Russia refused to sell China its Tu-22M3 because of their national security concerns even though the Tu-22M3 was not Russian's best bomber back then and Russia economy was in a abysmal situation. In contrast, F-22A is the best figher right now and will be the best fighers for at least 20 years, Lockhead Martin may have the desire to make more profits, but US government will consider not just money.

netspider said:

Japanese first invaded Korea when China was in Tang Dynasty, from then, there are at least seven wars initiated by Japanese. Japanese is indeed a very aggressive country. US should be really careful about who they are supporting.

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1. "Japanese" isn't a country.
2. Japan has far less of an offensive/first-strike capability than its neighbours.
3. Japan is a peaceful nation that hasn't started a war for 60 years, unlike many of its neighbours.

Ergo your post is not relevant to the discussion.

Gollevainen said:

and what if F-22 in JSDAF retains its offensive capapiltyes?? ...there are still tactical offensive weapons, not strategical and if some one wants to drew line between 'offensive' and 'defensive' systems, the line goes whit strategical weapons such as long range missiles, strategic assault equipment (longrange deployment of ground forces via air or sea) and offcourse, weapons of mass destructions...

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Indeed. The JASDF needs some kind of offensive capability with its assets, otherwise it would make retaking territory in case of an attack impossible. At the end of the day Japan still has no real offensive capability anywhere near what China, North Korea, Russia or the US has.

so its sounds bit too much of comon jelouse when chinese point of wiev shouts about japanese acuiring this 'offensive' weapon...

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I guess when China's buying Sovs from Russia it's merely "upgrading its forces for peaceful defence", but when Japan buys anything more complex than an electric toothbrush it's a sign they're rearming for another invasion of the mainland

I guess when China's buying Sovs from Russia it's merely "upgrading its forces for peaceful defence", but when Japan buys anything more complex than an electric toothbrush it's a sign they're rearming for another invasion of the mainland

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No, what matters is the balance of armed forces in East Asia. Look at the current planes in those east asia countries, F-15J, F-15K and Su-30MMK, they are at the same technology level. However, F-22A will give Japan a much lead in their Air Force, which will probably take China/Russia about 20 years to catch up. This will likely cause a new round of arm race and push China to join the co-developement program with Russia on their stealth plane, which US may would not like to see either.

When China buying Sovs from Russia, no matter what purpose of the purchase, the end result is a much improved China East Sea Fleet against Japan Navy. This brings two sides to a balanced (or close) Navy developement. This is the key to keep peace around. We all know that, and that's what US have been doing to Taiwan in past years to keep two sides balanced.

FuManChu said:

1. "Japanese" isn't a country.
2. Japan has far less of an offensive/first-strike capability than its neighbours.
3. Japan is a peaceful nation that hasn't started a war for 60 years, unlike many of its neighbours.

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Do Japan have a chose to be not peaceful?
Last time I check you got US station in your country.

Unlike which countries you want to imply to be not peaceful?
As far I could say no countries in Asia have a clean record for being peaceful.

indeed. The JASDF needs some kind of offensive capability with its assets, otherwise it would make retaking territory in case of an attack impossible. At the end of the day Japan still has no real offensive capability anywhere near what China, North Korea, Russia or the US has.

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I guess when China's buying Sovs from Russia it's merely "upgrading its forces for peaceful defence", but when Japan buys anything more complex than an electric toothbrush it's a sign they're rearming for another invasion of the mainland

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I guess when Japan rearming for its' military is call peaceful defence. When China buying some weapon is calling threat to the world.

This kind of dicussion is pointless, the person who bring up the China threat should not do it again. And the people such as me should stop reply to this kind of senseless comments, for me if you label China as a threat. China do have the right to point out that some countries have bigger budget and more powerful force than China. If you say China is evil, then China do have the right to say these countries are not any better. This is call toe to toe, it is kind of stupid. But also it is part of world political, stupid but useful.