US MIGHT sell f-22 to Japan

Well, in the end it depends how Japan and the U.S. define defense. Strike capabilities can be defensive if used in retaliation and on military targets. The question is if this is good enough for us. If it is, they'll probably only get a downgraded F-22 in the respect that the electronics aren't quite as good, but will retain the range of abilities of the F-22.

I have been wondering lately. How can you shoot down a stealth aitcraft such as the F-22 and B-2?
MOD EDIT [SwimmerXC]: Next time you want to ask questions please put it in the Military FAQ, also please don't post one-liners. Welcome to SDF.

Sboycl said:

I have been wondering lately. How can you shoot down a stealth aitcraft such as the F-22 and B-2?
MOD EDIT [SwimmerXC]: Next time you want to ask questions please put it in the Military FAQ, also please don't post one-liners. Welcome to SDF.

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since the question wasn't moved to FAQ i'll answer it here. You shoot it down the same way you would any other plane - with missiles and guns. Only you do it from a shorter range, and that range really depends on bunch of stuff: What sort of radar you have to guide your plane/missiles,
from which direction are you closing in on the enemy stealth plane as their stealth level is not the same from all angles,
what is the stealth plane doing (moving its control surfaces, or opening the weapons bay door,
how well maintained the stealth craft is - B2 is especially notorious for having much of its stealth paint retouched literally after every mission. USAF itself admitted work on that usually takes 2 days. Note, however, that doesn't mean B2s paintjob is bad, it just proves how maximized its stealth requirements are.

No one really knows for sure how short those ranges would be. 5,10,20 km tops. Pretty much guaranteeing you you'd be better off with short range IR missiles. Providing your squadron can get that close to a flight of f22s alive, of course.

tphuang said:

I think the per unit cost of F-2 reached 100 million or something like that. That's about 20 million more than a block 60 and 40 million more than a 2K9. The reason that people are calling it a failure is due to its huge reduction in order for JASDF. According to some people, that's because F-2 wasn't performing up to expectations. In fact, the AESA radar is one of the biggest problem. Because the Japanese didn't have much experience producing fighter radar before this, JAPG-1 had a lot of relibility and performance issues.

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The F-2's wings were made entirely of carbon composites, and had micro-crack problems. It took several years to fixed the problem, adding to the cost. The leading edge of the wings were coated with RAM. It was one of the first fighter to be fitted with the AESA(Mitsubishi) radar. It was an early adapter of cutting edge technologies, this probably explains why it encountered so many problems.

Good for the JDF, because when compared to other regional powers such as China, who posesses overwhelming military capability in almost all aspects, Japan can't really even defend itself for a sustained period without help. So for the Japanese to have this kind of defensive capability is a good thing, because c'mon, everyone knows that the few F-15J's that they have won't be enough to counter the Flanker force that the Chinese posess, much less the combined might of Chinese Aerial, Naval, and missile forces. I even doubt that the small numbers that are being tossed around would bridge that gap, but since the Japanese probably don't want to wait until the 2012 timeframe for the JSF, I think that this deal is very possible.

MrClean said:

Good for the JDF, because when compared to other regional powers such as China, who posesses overwhelming military capability in almost all aspects, Japan can't really even defend itself for a sustained period without help. So for the Japanese to have this kind of defensive capability is a good thing, because c'mon, everyone knows that the few F-15J's that they have won't be enough to counter the Flanker force that the Chinese posess, much less the combined might of Chinese Aerial, Naval, and missile forces. I even doubt that the small numbers that are being tossed around would bridge that gap, but since the Japanese probably don't want to wait until the 2012 timeframe for the JSF, I think that this deal is very possible.

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Let me see if I understood correctly your position... You believe that China 'posesses overwhelming military capability in almost all aspects' [over Japan, presumably], and that 'the few F-15J's that they have won't be enough to counter the Flanker force that the Chinese posess'. You did not name under what situation, so I presume you mean in defence, over Japanese airspace.

Given that most do not believe China possess same over Taiwan, I am very interested as to how you formed the view that Japan, more far from China and with more powerful military, suffer such disadvantage.

I think it's because many people assume that since China has a huge numerical superiority in terms of war material, it's not a problem for them to bowl over Japan. However, getting all that stuff coordinated to strike one place is a different matter.

Maybe kind of off topic but I would appreciate a reply if possible. Does anyone here know the locations of where China bases its J-10s and J-11s? And how many of them are within plausible striking range of Japan?

Well, from shanghai to kyushu island theres distance of some 800 km. From most eastern bit of manchuria to sapporo island the distance is little bit bigger. From shangai to Osaka the distance is over 1300 km. So, even with rebasing of the planes to put them as close as possible to japan, i doubt j10s could be useful in such an offensive war. Perhaps with in air refuelling both on the way thre and back from the mission. (if we want to retain full strike capability and not use external tanks)

su27 family, however is much better suited for such mission with its 1500 km combat range. I don't know where are j11 or su30 based right now but they could be rebased if needed.

Totoro said:

Well, from shanghai to kyushu island theres distance of some 800 km. From most eastern bit of manchuria to sapporo island the distance is little bit bigger. From shangai to Osaka the distance is over 1300 km. So, even with rebasing of the planes to put them as close as possible to japan, i doubt j10s could be useful in such an offensive war. Perhaps with in air refuelling both on the way thre and back from the mission. (if we want to retain full strike capability and not use external tanks)

su27 family, however is much better suited for such mission with its 1500 km combat range. I don't know where are j11 or su30 based right now but they could be rebased if needed.

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the operating radius of J-10 is about the same as su-27. Even the operating radius of JF-17 is around that range. The reason is that although J-10 has smaller fuel tanks than su-27, it is also much smaller, so obviously the fuel burn at a slower rate. Of course, the recent purchase of the IL-78 refuelers do help in ushc operations.

su27 combat radius is claimed to be 1500 km. I can't find any info on j10 besides that entry at sinodefence.com which states its over 550 km. f16 with comparable engine has combat range of 900 km. Given the similar size, I would think j10 range can't be much different than f16s... But please, if there's some credible article with exact figure on the j10s range, do provide the link.