UPI: "Taiwan plans to purchase.... two nuclear attack submarines."

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Again, what are the chances that a few older LA class SSNs be converted to SSKs and sold to Taiwan? Will it be less costly than building brand new ones?

Where do you come up with this stuff? There is no chance of older LA class ships being converted to SSK...No way.

BLUEJACKETStay on the topic of this thread. Stop posting links about this country Vs that country. Or :nono: :nono: The rest of you follow suit:nono: :nono:

bd popeye super moderator
 

Longaxe

New Member
I am sure there is something laying around that Taiwan might like, if they are brave or stupid…;) Russia’s not the only county with a lot of hunks of rusting junk.

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I am sure there is something laying around that Taiwan might like, if they are brave or stupid…;) Russia’s not the only county with a lot of hunks of rusting junk.

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Actually those ship a state preservation waiting to have the nuke cores removed...And that takes time. that's why BLUEJACKET question is so preposterous.
 

Neutral Zone

Junior Member
I don't think the US would ever sell Taiwan any SSN's even an old LA class without Tomahawk capability. If, more likely when China's SSN capability is significantly upgraded, then I think it's more likely that the US would keep some of it's SSN's pemanently in the area to help keep things level.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I think it's more likely that the US would keep some of it's SSN's pemanently in the area to help keep things level.

The USN has SSN's in Hawaii and Guam. And is planning to base more in the Pacific fleet..espically Guam.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Where do you come up with this stuff? There is no chance of older LA class ships being converted to SSK...No way.
I come up with it from my head using logic reasoning & the process of elimination. Since the US is having trouble restarting SSK production, and Taiwan paying for them, that leaves stricken LA subs that may be sold "as is" or as converted SSKs. In my previous posts (some of which you deleted), I included
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and
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to support my ideas- I don't make things up regarding technology that's already out and Taiwan's
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(they most probably have substantial intelligence capability inside the PRC) of the PLAN's current & future carrier related developments. I am open to criticism substantiated by valid references, but not statements like "no chance.. no way.. it will never happen.. it's not worth it.." , etc. You are attacking the ideas you don't want to accept subjectively without researching all the possible alternatives, and when I and others provide more data to the contrary you don't even bother to admit that you may be wrong- that happened in other teads too, by the way. Just because you are a moderator ("it's good to be King") doesn't mean that you have an unalienable right to usurp the final say on anything being discussed here. So, if you want this forum to stay interesting for all, not just yourself, you'll do good if you stop categoricaly saying "never.., won't.., no way.., isn't.., " and the like. I hope we have an understanding now.


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kunmingren

Junior Member
converting submarine isnt like putting mod on a car. have that actually been done by anyone? Even if it is possible, this modification will probably compromise submarine's hull integrety or its performance. It might be simpler to design a whole new sub instead.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I come up with it from my head using logic reasoning & the process of elimination. Since the US is having trouble restarting SSK production, and Taiwan paying for them, that leaves stricken LA subs that may be sold "as is" or as converted SSKs. In my previous posts I included articles and links to support my ideas- I don't make things up regarding technology that's already out...
Please reference a link to a credible technological organization where the conversion of nuclear attack subs to diesel electric subs has not only been discussed, but where technology is being put forward along with the production plans to accomplish this particualr task.

I do not believe there is a credible effort going on anywhere to retrofit a nuclear attack sub into a diesel sub...but would be open to any documentation to the contrary.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Bluejacket sez,

I am open to criticism substantiated by valid references, but not statements like "no chance.. no way.. it will never happen.. it's not worth it.." , etc.

Thats' right. "It ain't never gonna happen". Why? The cost to remove the nuke cores from a LA class is substainsial and will remain so. The US can only remove "X" number of nuke cores a year simply because of the cost. And to re-configure a LA class to a SSK is not going to happen. No nuke sub in the US has ever been converted to a SSK. The cost for R & D on such a project is astrominical. To put it simply.. "It cost too much money". The ROC nor the US can not afford such a conversion.

Just because you are a moderator ("it's good to be King") doesn't mean that you have an unalienable right to usurp the final say on anything being discussed here. So, if you want this forum to stay interesting for all, not just yourself, you'll do good if you stop categoricaly saying "never.., won't.., no way.., isn't.., " and the like. I hope we have an understanding now.

I do not need to spend time on end on line to research everthing any member post..Common sense and my life long experience tells me some of the idea you post are to farfetched to be viable. No matter where the idea came from.

We do have an understanding. I'm a super moderator..you are not.

I'm not so foolish as to get into a public argument with you. If you have any issues with my ablity to moderate this forum please feel free to PM me.
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
converting submarine isnt like putting mod on a car. have that actually been done by anyone? Even if it is possible, this modification will probably compromise submarine's hull integrety or its performance. It might be simpler to design a whole new sub instead.
This could be very true, but to overcome the PRC's & domestic objections for exporting nuclear powered subs to Taiwan, that maybe the quickest way- otherwise the ROC may go nuclear for the ultimate detterant, like N.Korea has done!
The nuclear reactor was later removed, and in June 1995 the MUTSU was handed over to JAMSTEC. The reactor is now on display in the Mutsu Science and Technology Museum next to the Mutsu Institute for Oceanography. The fore section of the hull was sent to Tokyo and the after section was sent to the Shimonoseki, where unused parts were dismantled, asbestos removed, and new sections constructed. In August 1996 the fore and after sections were joined in Tokyo, and the new vessel was then launched (on the right). Thus the nuclear powered vessel MUTSU with its checkered past began its second life as the world's largest class ocean and earth research vessel MIRAI. (emphasis added) The advent of MIRAI has enabled observation of the North Pacific in winter and the arctic area in summer.
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If it can be done on a civilian ship, than it probably could be done on subs!

In conjunction with the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) and the Royal Swedish Navy, the decision was taken to install the system in the ten-year old operational submarine HMS Näcken.
Näcken was cut in two and a complete new hull section, including the ready-installed Stirling AIP system, was added. (emphasis added) This increased the overall length of HMS Näcken by eight metres.
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In December 1990 MP “Zvezdochka” completed works on conversion of one of the Project 667A submarines into a large nuclear submarine for research works and studying the World ocean, physical fields of the Earth and sea bottom in the interest of the Navy and national economy.
Leningrad Design and Construction Bureau «Rubin» developed the detail design of Project 667A submarine conversion into project 667AN submarine in 1982. The design envisaged insertion of a new middle block in place of cut out missile compartments for location of research devices and equipment as well as of cabins and service spaces for the crew and scientists. (emphasis added) ..MP «Zvezdochka» in co-operation with PA «Sevmashpredpriaytie» carried out the conversion. It made the new hull block. The submarine was placed on the cover-in berth of MP “Zvezdochka” in October 1983 and launched in June 1990. After successful mooring tests, factory and state acceptance trials the submarine was commissioned to the Navy in 1991.
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Yankee Notch (Project 667AT/Grosha-class): This conversion subs were attack submarines that first appeared in 1983; six Yankee I boats were rebuilt to this configuration. They incorporated a "notch waisted" center section, which replaced the old ballistic missile compartment, .. The conversion increased the overall length by 39.4 feet (12m) to 464.2 feet (141.5m), with a displacement of up to 11,500 tons submerged. ..
Yankee SSN 16 of this type were converted from the basic Yankee I specification. .. They retained only their forward torpedo tubes, with the central missile sections having been removed.(emphasis added)
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Altoough the above quotes are not about converting nuclear subs to conventional ones, they nevertheless show that it's possible to convert a nuclear ship to conventional one, and to insert a new AIP section in a conventional submarine and a new section in a nuclear submarine. Combine these 3 technologies and you have the ability to cut out a reactor section and install AIP/diesel section- if the reactor can't be taken apart and removed without it & conventional propulsion installed in its place.
Just because it has never been done before it doesn't automaticaly mean that such conversion can never be done!
Besides,
688 Los Angeles Class
Attack Submarine[s already have]
8 Cylinder 38ND8-1/8 O-P Auxiliary Diesel Electric Genset
850 kW @ 720 RPM [engines]
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