UPI: "Taiwan plans to purchase.... two nuclear attack submarines."

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Well Bluejacket, since the ROCN has problems finding someone selling any type of new subs, I think it's even harder finding someone to provide SLCM capable subs to them.
They can use the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and for land attack they can be modified further. The Israelis also have them on their
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
&
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
:
A senior Israeli defense official confirmed that Dolphin-class subs carry modified U.S. Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Making them nuclear-capable would require an Israeli-developed nuclear warhead and guidance kit for land-attack targets. It is unknown whether the missiles have that modification. In March 2000, the United States rejected Israel's request for 12 long-range BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles. The Tomahawk sea-launched cruise missile exists in a nuclear-tipped version for delivery by U.S. attack subs. ..
Taiwan to boost submarine force with Harpoon anti-ship missiles: Jane's
TAIPEI (AFP) Sep 25, 2005
Taiwan plans to equip its two Dutch-built submarines with Harpoon anti-ship missiles that could be used to attack key Chinese naval bases, Jane's Defence Weekly said.
If all goes smoothly, the two Sea Dragon diesel electric submarines would be armed with UGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles, the defence weekly said in an article to be published Wednesday.
It said the US navy had awarded McDonnell Douglas Corp, a Boeing subsidiary, a contract to coordinate and execute an on-site survey of the submarines for this purpose.
Submarine-launched Harpoons are pre-loaded into a capsule and launched from a torpedo tube. The capsule rises to the surface and launches the missile.
"If Taiwan procures the Block 2 Harpoons with coastal target suppression, Taiwan's submarines will have the capability of attacking coastal, in-harbour and land targets," Jane's said.
"This will place China's key naval bases of Shantou, Xiamen, Sandu, Xiazhen, Shanghai and Zhoushan in Taiwan's crosshairs," it said
The Harpoon missile deal, following Russia's sale of Kh-41 anti-ship missiles to China, was part of a 2001 US arms package. ..

Taiwan already has air and ship-launched Harpoons. ..
'A Taiwan F-16 fighter jet has
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
a Harpoon antiship missile during an ongoing joint forces exercise in what will greatly expand the Air Force's capability to intercept attacking Chinese warships long before they approach the island, military officials were quoted as saying Wednesday. ..'The combination of F-16s with Harpoon missiles will greatly expand our combat range and enhance our capability to intercept hostile warships as far away as Hainan Island or Qingdao,'' ..
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Perhaps another way for the ROCN to get foreign subs quicker is for the US to sell old LA SSNs to Japan & for Japan to sell/lease their surpluss SSKs to Taiwan! But, I must admit, for that to happen the Japanese must feel very threatened by the PLAN and/or RN! There is still no peace treaty between Japan & Russia because of the Southern Kuril Islands (aka Northern Territories) issue.
 
Last edited:

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Perhaps another way for the ROCN to get foreign subs quicker is for the US to sell old LA SSNs to Japan & for Japan to sell/lease their surpluss SSKs to Taiwan!

I'm sure the JMSDF would love to have a couple of LA class to patrol arounf the isle of "Nippon"..But..well you know the rest:D . Plus how would the PRC feel about this? Would they feel threatened ? Or would it wratchet up an esat Asia arms race?

Bottom line..Japan is not purchasing any LA class subs anytime soon. just my opinion. Why should they when the USN is patrolling Japanese waters?
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
But at some future time they may build their own SSNs/SSBNs. The trend is for more self-reliance, and they are in a tough neigborhood! The British were also under the US protection during the CW, but still felt the need for their own deterrance, not to mention the French who wanted to be more independent after the Suez crisis! How can the Japanese be sure that the US will always back them up, especially knowing about the huge amount of trade between the US & PRC?
I remember mentioning US SSBN #s somehere, and found this:
The 313-ship fleet is to retain 14 SSBN until the mid-2020s replacement SSBN(X) will be required to enter production at a one-per-year rate to replace existing "Ohio" class boats. One future option would be to reduce the number to 10, with the oldest four being converted to SSGN configuration.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
BLUEJACKET I'm not sure but I think the Japanese consitution may forbid the use of nuclear power/energy for military use.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
BLUEJACKET I'm not sure but I think the Japanese consitution may forbid the use of nuclear power/energy for military use.

They are changing these restrictions, a little bit at a time... please see my post #7
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is going to be stationed there, so why not have their own SSNs/GNs/BNs down the road?
On December 1, 2005, the United States Navy announced that George Washington will replace USS Kitty Hawk in 2008 as the forward-deployed carrier in Yokosuka Japan. She will be the first nuclear-powered surface warship permanently stationed in Japan. George Washington will assume Carrier Air Wing 5, already based in Japan.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Back to ROCN submarines. With sufficient numbers, some of them could be at sea at all times; armed with SLC/ASMs, they could act as credible deterrant (see quote in my prev. post). Moreover, they could augment the USN & JMSF in piecetime intell gathering on PLA/N and, in a real conflict involving ROC, target the PRC forces at sea & on land. It would be equal to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
USN SSNs to Taiwan instead of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Could the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
hull be adopted for diesel-electric/direct drive/AIP design since its for both
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
?


nssn_m2.jpg


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Other proposed Tango Bravo innovations include replacing many of the sub's hydraulics and pneumatics with electric actuators, installing a hull-adaptable sonar array, and swapping the current propulsion system out for a quieter, more energy-efficient "shaftless" one instead.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Even without any new submarines, Taiwan could modify a few large transports to carry hundreds of ALCMs- like the proposed USAF C-17 Arsenal aircraft (see post #221).
The Boeing 747s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
could carry as many as
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
~30-40 (if not more) each!
 
Last edited:

Galrahn

New Member
Bluejacket,

It is unlikely more SSGNs will be made from SSBNs. While rarely mentioned despite being publicly available information, the first 4 Ohios were originally designed to carry the C-4 version of the Trident, the remaining 14 were designed to carry the larger D-5 Trident. In order to convert more Ohio's to SSGN design, there would be additional design cost considerations for conversions because the configurations of the remaining 14 are different than the first 4. As Paul Harvey would say, "now you know the rest of the story."

In general Taiwan buying SSNs doesn't make sense on a strategic or tactical level. First, the provocative nature of the deal would make it costly in political capital for both the legislative bodies of the US and Taiwan. Second, if you are going to put out the money to refuel and redeploy a nuclear submarine, why would you with a nuke boat at least 4 generations behind modern when modern SSKs are available at a fraction of the cost?

On a tactical level, the strait is tailor suited for conventional submarine operations from Taiwan due to the lack of endurance requirements, shallow water, temperature, and swift currents. What advantage tactically does a SSN provide that a SSK couldn't in this specific situation?

I don't see a viable tactical reason that justifies the cost.
 

zraver

Junior Member
VIP Professional
To be completley honest we will sell Britian anything she ever asks for. If Britian decided it wanted a Seawolf and a Nimitz we'd ink the deal.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Yes I am sure they would, and do so for a great many reasons.

The most relevant for this discussion however, is that there is no question or ambiguity attendant to Britains Soverign status.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Bluejacket,
It is unlikely more SSGNs will be made from SSBNs. Second, if you are going to put out the money to refuel and redeploy a nuclear submarine, why would you with a nuke boat at least 4 generations behind modern when modern SSKs are available at a fraction of the cost?..
On a tactical level, the strait is tailor suited for conventional submarine operations from Taiwan due to the lack of endurance requirements, shallow water, temperature, and swift currents. What advantage tactically does a SSN provide that a SSK couldn't in this specific situation?
I will believe it whan I see it- even if not SSGNs, then SSBNs with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
- in adequate numbers, they may take over at least some of SSGN & SSN's land attack missions.
Taiwan has modern SSKs avialable to them on paper only! Ideally, they could use both SSKs & SSNs- in green & blue water respectively. To restrict operations in the strait only is = shooting themselves in the foot, given
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of current & future PLAN SSKs!
 
Last edited:
Top