UPI: "Taiwan plans to purchase.... two nuclear attack submarines."
- Thread starter TinWing
- Start date
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
I think one possible reason the proponents of the article would use is that no one will sell it SSKs, so the only other choice would be the US selling it some of its own SSNs. Of course, as has been discussed here, SSKs are still way more likely than nuclear subs.
BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Japan is becoming a normal country, by their own admission- as such her own interests will be pursued first, and in some areas they'll not be the same as those of the US & others! Look at both Koreas- they are going their own way, not the way China and US want them to!
What are the chances that a few older LA class SSNs be converted to SSKs and sold to Taiwan? Will it be less costly than building a brand new ones?
What are the chances that a few older LA class SSNs be converted to SSKs and sold to Taiwan? Will it be less costly than building a brand new ones?
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
I have never said that Japan was not becoming a normal country, nor that would never pursue a more independent foreign policy. But that is not what you were talking about - you talked about it becoming hostile to the US. There is a huge difference, and at the moment there is absolutely no perceivable reason why Japan would piss off its best friend.
Anyway, back on to the submarines and Taiwan. I believe Popeye (and/or others) rightly said that the cost of merely running ex-US SSNs would be very high, especially as Taiwan has no experience of them. Then you'd have to factor in necessary work to extend their lifetimes, etc. I can't see how they'd be cheaper than SSKs, because the main SSK question is about finding a builder. If one was found, it's doubtful they would offer too high a price as it would risk Taiwan refusing and the deal being lost.
Last edited by a moderator:
As long as PROC remains at odds with the US even a militarily autonomous Japan would side with America. The history is just too deep. Not to mention Japan is absolutely scared to death of Chinese retribution.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
Although my little ´ceterum censeo´ about Taiwan´s SSK issue appears sometimes quite repetitive in the perception of some forummembers I will certainly not desist from describing an obvious political/strategic development in appropriate and logical terms, dear Mr. Fu. The ´hunt for SSK´ will end up in hunting a ghost around the globe for nothing in return except for lost money and shattered illusions.
The KMT is currently hedging her options since Ma Jing-yeoh does not want to limit his potential of action before he actually assumes power. Of course KMT tries to please ROCA/ROCN/ROCAF since most of their officers are members of the Guomindang and they would not tolerate a whimsy pacifist approach but these professional soldiers also do not want that tensions with the mainland escalate into a destructive and hopeless war.
Eventually Ma will talk directly with Hu after 08 and both will end up doing what chinese people have done successfully for millenia: they will strike a good mutually beneficial deal! Hu Jintao will go at great lenghts for achieving a compromise and finally Taiwan will even get her subs but these will be of Yuan (041) type probably
. (Ok, well thats irony but I only want to indicate that Beijing will be surprisingly flexible in her concessions)
The political game in Taiwan is currently very complicated and dynamic since Chen is effectively paralysed by his family´s corruption scandals. Correspondingly the situation could change in favour of the KMT very soon and this would in turn accelerate developments I have described before but Taiwan´s chaotic democracy will probably be good for a surprise again. The current very cautious approach by Beijing (just read the mainland press/websites) is clear evidence that the CCP leadership has something in common with their KMT counterparts: both are biding their time.:coffee:
The KMT is currently hedging her options since Ma Jing-yeoh does not want to limit his potential of action before he actually assumes power. Of course KMT tries to please ROCA/ROCN/ROCAF since most of their officers are members of the Guomindang and they would not tolerate a whimsy pacifist approach but these professional soldiers also do not want that tensions with the mainland escalate into a destructive and hopeless war.
Eventually Ma will talk directly with Hu after 08 and both will end up doing what chinese people have done successfully for millenia: they will strike a good mutually beneficial deal! Hu Jintao will go at great lenghts for achieving a compromise and finally Taiwan will even get her subs but these will be of Yuan (041) type probably
. (Ok, well thats irony but I only want to indicate that Beijing will be surprisingly flexible in her concessions)The political game in Taiwan is currently very complicated and dynamic since Chen is effectively paralysed by his family´s corruption scandals. Correspondingly the situation could change in favour of the KMT very soon and this would in turn accelerate developments I have described before but Taiwan´s chaotic democracy will probably be good for a surprise again. The current very cautious approach by Beijing (just read the mainland press/websites) is clear evidence that the CCP leadership has something in common with their KMT counterparts: both are biding their time.:coffee:
Last edited:
Chengdu J-10
Junior Member
China would absolutely disagree and raged if a transfer of the LA subs were see in the ROC navy inventory. Besides i dont think US will transfer there LA subs either due to the fact that the dont want to hurt their relationship (Sino-US)
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
That isn't what you said. You said that Taiwan didn't have the money or willpower (as well as the means) to build them. I refute those first two points - you haven't backed up your original points.
I don't think anyone wants a war. But they would be prepared for one if it happened - what's your point?
I disagree. I am sure that there will be talks, but the idea China and Taiwan will resolve their differences that quickly are very unlikely. There are lots of things to be addressed, biggest of all what Taiwan's status would be and how it would be managed. Then there's the problem of getting the Constitution ammended, which wouldn't happen without DPP support (2/3 majority required in the legislative yuan and 50% of the electorate voting in a successful referendum).
Plus I am not so sure China would let Taiwan have its own military. Whenever that point is raised on Chinese forums I see a heck of a lot of "we will never allow...." comments. Also I doubt very, very much that Taiwan would agree to make its military completely reliant on China. Allowing China to shut it down at will would be a waste of money. If Taiwanese taxpayers were to pay for their own military they would want control of it.
Last edited by a moderator:
BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Again, what are the chances that a few older LA class SSNs be converted to SSKs and sold to Taiwan? Will it be less costly than building brand new ones?
Last edited by a moderator:
kunmingren
Junior Member
i wouldnt say the history is 'too deep'. honestly, the only major hisotrical grievence is WWII, and that's lasted only 8 years. If you factor all of Japan's imperial transgression, which started in 1895 with the first sino-japanese war, its only like 50 years. Thats 50 years out of thousands of years of amicable coexistence, so i dont think the historical problem is as bad as btween say Turky and the Balkans. Just to put it into prespective, the Mongolians and the Chinese were hostile to each other for at least a century, but you dont hear them wanting pay back for past transgression.
i grew up in China (up till 11 years old) and i dont harbor anything against Japan, and my parents never said any anti-japanese thing, at least not in front of me. The only Japan bashing things i heard are from my grandparents. I just dont see how this feud will last beyond my generation ( i am 20).
Last edited: