Ukrainian War Developments

FairAndUnbiased · Mar 1, 2022

Phead128 said:
China mediate ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia.....Why should China get involved in this shit? China will get smeared by West anyways and any talk of "Putin cool it" will be interpreted as "slight" or "betrayal" by Putin, so what is the point of getting involved? China should stay out of this giant clusterfck.

This is a tacit admission that China is a major power broker in Eurasia as a whole, and has significant diplomatic pull.

It is the same reason why US hosts Middle East talks even when it's not a party. It shows off the US diplomatic power and ability to make deals.

Mohsin77 · Mar 1, 2022

meckhardt98 said:
It does situationally where Russia is acting as an aggressor in its backyard. Russia can get away with Ukraine much like they did with said countries because they know they can bare the brunt of the consequences, you keep trying to justify your point because you believe the Russians are justified in their invasion when they objectively aren’t.

I can see supporting the LNR and DPR but a full invasion of Ukraine will never be justified and is a true tragedy and the fact that you can’t seem to see the faults in Russia’s invasion; there are faults with Ukraine as-well but nothing to justify a war; is what is most tragic.

This only provides the Russian government and higher ups with the confidence to further harass and militarize their neighbors; no better than the Americans.

I accidentally posted a partial response on mobile, so let me finish the point I was typing:

You're trying to defend your position based on 1 messy conflict, by posting 2 other messy conflicts, neither of which actually solve your problem (each of those conflicts has defensive justifications for Russia, even though I don't like how it conducted Chechnya.)

The general problem with your argument (which I pointed to earlier) still remains the same. This is not the Imperial Russian Empire or even the USSR anymore. Russia today is a weak power that is desperately trying to hang on to what it's got. You were right when you said that it is outmatched by NATO. But you're simultaneously claiming it is an aggressive power which doesn't make any sense. You're basically claiming that Russia is an irrational actor, which is the same claim I see being made by NATO/US constantly.

I gave you a citation of Chomsky who's been on this case for decades. He's got a lot of published works dealing with the NATO-Russia dynamic which shows why you're conclusion is wrong. It is actually NATO that is the aggressor here. Nothing that you've said over turns that reality.

ThomX · Mar 1, 2022

Phead128 said:
China mediate ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia.....Why should China get involved in this shit? China will get smeared by West anyways and any talk of "Putin cool it" will be interpreted as "slight" or "betrayal" by Putin, so what is the point of getting involved? China should stay out of this giant clusterfck.

China will surely favor Russia more than enough to compensate the war if they mediate. Chinese remember Motor Sich.
美国人可以拉偏架，中国人为什么不行？
And who cares about what Ukraine or EU think? They don't possess the right to speak in this event. Not even close. Let them stay the f out and see how permanent council members make the deal.

foxmulder · Mar 1, 2022

Map does not lie. Without air force or heavy artillery, Russian Army is actually doing a good job.

Hadoren · Mar 1, 2022

China should absolutely not mediate a ceasefire or host talks.

In the end, either Russia or Ukraine is going to be humiliated. Most likely Ukraine.

If Russia is humiliated, you betray your strongest ally. An ally with massive nukes, the #2/#3 army in the world, and a long northern border. The ally that will supply food, oil, and natural resources in any future war with America.

If Ukraine is predictably humiliated, the EU will blame you for Ukraine's defeat. You are now an accomplice to Russia and the European peoples will find a true reason to genuinely hate China. The EU still hasn't put broad tariffs or sanctions on China.

Let's keep it that way. Avoid this poisoned chalice.

Phead128 · Mar 1, 2022

FairAndUnbiased said:
This is a tacit admission that China is a major power broker in Eurasia as a whole, and has significant diplomatic pull.

It is the same reason why US hosts Middle East talks even when it's not a party. It shows off the US diplomatic power and ability to make deals.

Let us welcome the Israeli Superpower of Eurasia.

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The Israeli Kan channel said that Ukraine asked Israel to mediate with Russia to reach a ceasefire. The channel quoted Israeli and Ukrainian sources saying that the request for Israeli mediation was made on the call between President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday.

That's four (4) days ago, Ukraine requested Israel to mediate a ceasefire. So that means Israel is a bigger Supa Powah of Eurasia than China, a forever second-choice among Westphallic nations.

meckhardt98 · Mar 1, 2022

Mohsin77 said:
I accidentally posted a partial response on mobile, so let me finish the point I was typing:

You're trying to defend your position based on 1 messy conflict, by posting 2 other messy conflicts, neither of which actually solve your problem (each of those conflicts has defensive justifications for Russia, even though I don't like how it conducted Chechnya.)

The general problem with your argument (which I pointed to earlier) still remains the same. This is not the Imperial Russian Empire or even the USSR anymore. Russia today is a weak power that is desperately trying to hang on to what it's got. You were right when you said that it is outmatched by NATO. But you're simultaneously claiming it is an aggressive power which doesn't make any sense. You're basically claiming that Russia is an irrational actor, which is the same claim I see being made by NATO/US constantly.

I gave you a citation of Chomsky who's been on this case for decades. He's got a lot of published works dealing with the NATO-Russia dynamic which shows why you're conclusion is wrong. It is actually NATO that is the aggressor here. Nothing that you've said over turns that reality.

I’m not arguing with you that NATO isn’t an inherently aggressive or offensive military alliance that does much postering, nor have I said that Russia is irrational.

Russia is very calculating and always has been; it’s a hold over of Soviet mentality; however they have grossly misjudged the situation in Ukraine and continue to act aggressively to the determinant of regional affairs and relations. The aftermath of this war will be more detrimental to Russia, even if they partition Ukraine they’ve given NATO and the EU the proper excuses it needs to further incorporate members into its sphere of influence and increase military spending.

Once again you aren’t supporting that the invasion is justified. Ukraine and Russia could have solved things diplomatically; we can speculate on any number of factors as of why Russia chose to war against Ukraine; but at the end of the day we’ll never truly know since we aren’t the ones making the decisions. It is clear you hold your stance and I hold mine and there’s no changing it.

However I will maintain and support the fact that the Russian invasion is not only unjustified and unlawful but it is causing more harm to Russian hegemony and sphere of influence than it is benefitting from it.

9dashline · Mar 1, 2022

Phead128 said:
Let us welcome the Israeli Superpower of Eurasia.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

That's four (4) days ago, Ukraine requested Israel to mediate a ceasefire. So that means Israel is a bigger Supa Powah of Eurasia than China, a forever second-choice among Westphallic nations.

Zel is a mossad agent?

If Lithuania got invaded by Belarus would Tiawan be choosen as the mediator simply because the Lithuania president was of Tiawanese ethnicity???

FairAndUnbiased · Mar 1, 2022

If China does mediate, I believe this is a good starting point for a treaty:

1. Ukraine has to understand that Russia is a major power with legitimate concerns. It is going to get an unequal treaty. If it wants to remain mostly 1 country, it needs to recognize Russian Donbass, recognize Russian Crimea, Zelensky promises to prosecute Nazis, quit EU, sign treaty to never join NATO, and join CSTO.

2. Russia should be gently convinced that maximalist requests are not good for long term peace. Showing some mercy such as merely taking all of Donbass, rather than all of Ukraine east of the Dnieper, and allowing Ukrainians to keep Kiev whole, would be a start. Paying a little token compensation would also help.

So there you go. Ukraine survives with most of its territory, Russia gains territory and wins the war according to it's stated goals.

Mohsin77 · Mar 1, 2022

meckhardt98 said:
I’m not arguing with you that NATO isn’t an inherently aggressive or offensive military alliance that does much postering, nor have I said that Russia is irrational.

Russia is very calculating and always has been; it’s a hold over of Soviet mentality; however they have grossly misjudged the situation in Ukraine and continue to act aggressively to the determinant of regional affairs and relations. The aftermath of this war will be more detrimental to Russia, even if they partition Ukraine they’ve given NATO and the EU the proper excuses it needs to further incorporate members into its sphere of influence and increase military spending.

Once again you aren’t supporting that the invasion is justified. Ukraine and Russia could have solved things diplomatically; we can speculate on any number of factors as of why Russia chose to war against Ukraine; but at the end of the day we’ll never truly know since we aren’t the ones making the decisions. It is clear you hold your stance and I hold mine and there’s no changing it.

However I will maintain and support the fact that the Russian invasion is not only unjustified and unlawful but it is causing more harm to Russian hegemony and sphere of influence than it is benefitting from it.

Again, this doesn't make any sense.

You're equation is: Russia is weak + Russia is Rational = Russia is "aggressive".

But Weak + Rational actors aren't Aggressive man! It doesn't add up.

And since you've already admitted that NATO is "inherently aggressive" just do the math.

Ukrainian War Developments

FairAndUnbiased

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Mohsin77

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ThomX

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foxmulder

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Hadoren

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Phead128

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meckhardt98

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9dashline

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FairAndUnbiased

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Mohsin77

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