Ukrainian War Developments

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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Do you know how many are waiting to be evacuated. Is it a big number (5+ digits)?

There are around 6000 Chinese nationals in Ukraine. Around 400 students have already left the country and I assume that more are in the evacuation pipeline. Here is the deal though. A lot of the business people in Ukraine have already married Ukrainian nationals, had children, and can't leave their family behind. Not all of them are willing to evacuate no matter how bad things get. It is their home now.

 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I don’t think Russia offering to compensate people to relocate; especially if it is perceived as forceful relocation, which it will be since it’s human nature to be stubborn in the face of adversity is going to solve their problems in annexed regions and will instead most likely create a plethora of problems for Russia.

If they simply decided to recognize the LNR and DPR then they’d be in a better position to negotiate and may have been able to hold some sort of illusion of moral supremacy, however they decided for a full offensive against Ukraine instead and dragged both Belarus and Chechnya into the conflict broadening the responsibility onto other nations and have better situated Ukraine as the “victim”.

The Mujahideen and later Taliban were able to throw together a successful insurgency against both the Soviet Union and the United States respectfully despite numerous tribal and cultural differences [although it can be said the Mujahideen were far more successful in cooperation within the tribal community]; which was set up and funded by the CIA.
The problem with the moral supremacy argument is that it doesn't work with the west. No matter how valid your grievances are, they will only be listened to if you're sitting on a big pile of oil or your interests align with there's. There are lots of conflicts around the world, yet America champions Xinjiang because it gives them a reason to be anti-China.

Russian demands are valid. They believe Ukraine is harbouring a neo-Nazi group that are killing ethnic Russians. Since 2014, they've integrated them into their army.

If an Arab country had a ISIS paramilitary group that venerated Osama Bin Laden and killed American citizens, what do you think the response would be?

Not saying the two are identical, but to dismiss Russian concerns completely as America and Ukraine have done is inevitably going to lead to this situation. Given that Ukraine is smaller I'm surprised Russia has shown the restraint it has.
Russia has simply done to much to make itself out as the bad guy in the eyes of the Ukrainians [even the minority groups in the east] to have them simply leave. Especially when you have radical elements within Ukraine which will use this as a chance to push their ideologies forward onto a demoralized and desperate populace.

However like I said we won’t know for certain until well into the future what the consequences will be.
The Chechens hated Russians more than anyone, and the Japanese weren't very fond of Americans either. They both became client states for their masters.
 

KYli

Brigadier

Given those reports how the Ukrainians border guards are giving preferential treatment to whites getting out of the country, how did China arrange to have trains to evacuate Chinese students? I haven't read any reports of Ukrainians attacking Chinese like they apparently are against Indians for India abstaining at the UN against Russia. The only thing I read was China gave a warning to its citizens in the country not to stand out.
Chinese ambassador was with the evacuees all the way when they left Ukraine. China has solicited helps from Ukrainian neighbors for a safe passage and all of them offer to give visa free entry for the Chinese. That's why there are no drama. I guess it is a good thing China is a powerful country. Even the Ukrainian government is being accommodated.
 

Vatt’ghern

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is probably one of the most nonsensical things I’ve read in awhile. I don’t know if you read what the moderators put out but comments like this are getting people banned from the thread.

You probably shouldn’t do that.
sorry my poor attempt at making light of a dark situation, but you can't deny there is a level of viciousness by western MSM when it comes to China that isn't really there when it comes to Russia.

China is in no way relevant to Ukraine and yet Republican senators and American media mouthpieces will bring up China because Langley and the White House deem China a bigger geopolitical threat than Russia
 

KenC

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese ambassador was with the evacuees all the way when they left Ukraine. China has solicited helps from Ukrainian neighbors for a safe passage and all of them offer to give visa free entry for the Chinese. That's why there are no drama. I guess it is a good thing China is a powerful country. Even the Ukrainian government is being accommodated.

Indeed 1700 Chinese evacuees are on the way or should be within Polish and Moldavian borders right now, according to this report by GT.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Taking a rough look at the numbers being posted by oryx, one can tell that 50% of the russian vehicle losses are due to logistics and bad employment, with the majority of being abandoned due to different reasons, from lack of fuel, to malfunctions to getting stuck or captured one way or another which offers some nuance to the picture some are trying to paint that every loss is due to TB-2's, Javelins and whathaveyou.
 

meckhardt98

Junior Member
Registered Member
The problem with the moral supremacy argument is that it doesn't work with the west. No matter how valid your grievances are, they will only be listened to if you're sitting on a big pile of oil or your interests align with there's. There are lots of conflicts around the world, yet America champions Xinjiang because it gives them a reason to be anti-China.

Russian demands are valid. They believe Ukraine is harbouring a neo-Nazi group that are killing ethnic Russians. Since 2014, they've integrated them into their army.

If an Arab country had a ISIS paramilitary group that venerated Osama Bin Laden and killed American citizens, what do you think the response would be?

Not saying the two are identical, but to dismiss Russian concerns completely as America and Ukraine have done is inevitably going to lead to this situation. Given that Ukraine is smaller I'm surprised Russia has shown the restraint it has.

The Chechens hated Russians more than anyone, and the Japanese weren't very fond of Americans either. They both became client states for their masters.
The killing of “Ethnic Russians” isn’t because of an agenda based on their extermination; it simply has to do with the fact that “Ethnic Russians” happen to populate areas in which conflict is openly occurring.

Both sides are equally guilty for shelling each other on a constant basis; even with that taken into consideration only around 14-30K have actually died on both sides as a result of shelling. A further +800K have been displaced from the Donbass region. Non of this would have happened in the capacity it did without the Russian government directly backing of separatist forces; it’s possible a peaceful solution could have been achieved without interference, this goes for western interference as-well.

The usage of the word “genocide” is used as a political tool by Russia; but can be extended to almost every country; who use it to gain a “moral” high ground and justify their actions and foreign policies. Are there “Nazis” in Ukraine? Yes. But their influence isn’t as inherent nor prominent enough to warrant a military campaign against an entire nation.

The west has been using the justification of moral supremacy in this conflict to justify the shipment of weapons and supplies to Ukrainian forces; artificially extending the conflict and as a result lives lost by both sides. The Russians use their justification of moral supremacy to wage a war that they’ve wanted to wage since before 2014.

Both sides are equally as quality and wrong in this situation and it’s unfortunate because the lives of millions are being adversely affected.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
The stand-off range is good; however I wonder why they are resorting to using Tu22M bombers for precision strikes.

Did they run out of Iskander and or Kalibr missiles to launch at Ukraine? It’s not unrealistic to assume that warships in the Black Sea have expended most of their munitions by now based on the frequency of Kalibr strikes early on in the invasion and they should still have a surplus of other guided missile platforms [unless those two have run dried and then that presents a far more serious problem].

Perhaps they are unwilling to risk combat pilots knowing that some Ukranian air defenses are still active [especially with it being reported an Su34 was shot down today] or perhaps they simply needed training and this proved an ample time; all that considered the Kh22/32 platform isn’t the most modern platform available to the RuAF or the Tu22M. It is likely we will never know although it is interesting to speculate on.
Using stockpile before they are not good anymore ?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Embassy is working over time to coordinate police protection for Chinese nationals. Some haven’t even gotten time for a bite of food. Unfortunately not even they have been able to cover everybody. A Chinese student was shot in Kviv while reaching for his luggage because some civilian with an automatic rifle thought he was transporting ammo. He is being treated in a hospital.

The thing is it's not just random racism from Ukrainian thugs if China was able to arrange passage out for Chinese because we would have cases of Chinese being attacked like there are of Indians if they were committed by racists acting out from personal hatred. It's policy from higher ups to pull non-whites from trains and buses leaving Ukraine to make way for others first. Why give China a pass? I can only think that if the West was going to invest real money into Ukraine, they would've done it long ago but since they haven't Ukraine doesn't want to burn its bridges with China.
 
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Taking a rough look at the numbers being posted by oryx, one can tell that 50% of the russian vehicle losses are due to logistics and bad employment, with the majority of being abandoned due to different reasons, from lack of fuel, to malfunctions to getting stuck or captured one way or another which offers some nuance to the picture some are trying to paint that every loss is due to TB-2's, Javelins and whathaveyou.
You don't let them behind in working condition so you blowing tires or tracks making them hard to use. So many vehicule seen only with tires out and some scratch...
 
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