Ukrainian War Developments

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FriedButter

Colonel
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Got to say that the US has handled this pretty well.

The way they have played this, if Putin attacks, Russia gets crippling economic sanctions which means another lost decade for the Russian economy. Plus Europe's/Germany's economy will fall and cause capital flight to the US treasuries.

If Putin backs down it will be seen as a humiliation and also make Eastern Europe to see the US as a worthy ally.

Really, I can't see any way the US gets out of this damaged. Its all positives for them. If I was Biden now, I will most likely be praying that Putin attacks Ukraine. This way the US would be the biggest winner while Russia/EU would be the losers.

For Russia, the only way they avoid this is if they convince Germany to stay on their side (doubtful) or if Russia finds an unorthodox way to deal with Ukraine ("little green men" Crimea style)
I really don’t see this going all that well for the US or Biden. Best Case for the Biden and the US is for Russia not to attack Ukraine. The Western Economies is not doing that well at the moment. One of the Federal Reserve members is “open for discussion” on an emergency rate hike in mid march because of inflation. Democrat Party is over for at least a decade if Russia invades.
 

FriedButter

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According to reports, the negotiations for the Iran nuclear deal are having progress and we have entered the final stage. It is likely that we might have a finalised deal within this month
I imagine the Ukraine crisis is pressuring the US to reach a deal with Iran. After all Iran has the 2nd largest proven reserves of natural gas.
 

Overbom

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I really don’t see this going all that well for the US or Biden. Best Case for the Biden and the US is for Russia not to attack Ukraine. The Western Economies is not doing that well at the moment. One of the Federal Reserve members is “open for discussion” on an emergency rate hike in mid march because of inflation. Democrat Party is over for at least a decade if Russia invades.
Would you not trade a year or 2 of higher US inflation for a relative destruction of the Russian economy? I would certainly go for that.

China is a long term competitor of the US. The faster the US eliminates Russia from the equation the better.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
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I've become convinced that for Russia to make any diplomatic gains, it must undertake military action of some sort. Unfortunately, given that the West has publicly stated that it would inflict as much damage as it can if Russia takes any action, the incentive for Russia is to go for maximalist military action since it's going to pay the same price no matter what it does. It's worth thinking about how that might play out.

Of course, Russia would love to be able to capture all of Ukraine in a lightning campaign and install a puppet government before anyone has a chance to blink. Unfortunately, the Ukrainian military - while weak - isn't that weak, the political system is sufficiently cohesive, and the population is sufficiently hostile to make that infeasible. What's likely to happen in the broadest range of military scenarios is that Ukraine becomes another Syria.

What I think will eventually happen is that Russia will seize southern and eastern Ukraine (the "Novorossiya" region) and establish a quasi-functioning state there. No/sporadic insurgency, a government that provides basic services, integration into the Russian economy, etc. It would be far better than the parts of Syria under Assad's control today, but still far from prosperous. The northwest part of Ukraine would be Idlib in this scenario - frequent Russian bombardment, massive refugee inflows (from the populations exiled from the parts of Ukraine under Russian control) and outflows into countries like Poland, a destroyed infrastructure incapable of supporting human habitation, etc.

We might get there quickly or we might get there over a period of years if this conflict drags out and the West stays committed to its sanctions policy and severs ties with Russia, leaving Russia no choice but maximal, unconstrained hostility against the West.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
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It's partly due to that that I think that Russia has little to no prospects of improving its position without going to war (the bombs and bullets kind). It's been cornered.

You're essentially claiming that Russia's strategy to lure Germany away from NATO has already failed. If that's true, then I would agree with you that Russia will absolutely need to attack Ukraine to make sure NATO does not capture it.

But I think Russia still has a good chance of luring Germany away from NATO. Look at how Berlin is behaving right now. It is trying to stay neutral. So Berlin is still in play for Russia, which means that it doesn't need to attack Ukraine yet.

So again, if Russia attacks, and Germany sides with NATO, then Russia still loses strategically (regardless of any operational victory in Ukraine.) On the other hand, if Germany sides with Russia (invasion or not) then Russia wins.
 

FriedButter

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Would you not trade a year or 2 of higher US inflation for a relative destruction of the Russian economy? I would certainly go for that.

China is a long term competitor of the US. The faster the US eliminates Russia from the equation the better.
From a geopolitical viewpoint sure but internal stability in the US isn’t exactly in a great place for the Establishment and the Neocons.

You got the Dems looking to charge Trump with any crime to prevent him from running in 2024.

You got the Supreme Court about the make a major decision on abortion by the end of June this year.

If inflation skyrockets then it all but guarantees Trump will get re-elected but what if the Dems prevent him by running with a criminal charge. In either case the Dems, Neocons, Establishment are in a bad position.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
You're essentially claiming that Russia's strategy to lure Germany away from NATO has already failed.
If that was ever Russia's strategy then it was doomed to failure. Germany is a conquered country under US occupation, there's no luring it away from anything.
But I think Russia still has a good chance of luring Germany away from NATO. Look at how Berlin is behaving right now. It is trying to stay neutral. So Berlin is still in play for Russia, which means that it doesn't need to attack Ukraine yet.
There's a vast difference between what Berlin would like to do and what Berlin is going to do.
So again, if Russia attacks, and Germany sides with NATO, then Russia still loses strategically (regardless of any operational victory in Ukraine.)
Some wars you get into not to improve your relative position or "win." Some wars you get into just to survive.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
From a geopolitical viewpoint sure but internal stability in the US isn’t exactly in a great place for the Establishment and the Neocons.

You got the Dems looking to charge Trump with any crime to prevent him from running in 2024.
Good point. I am seeing this from a very hard realpolitik PoV.
Obviously the US will probably wont act in a totally rational and interest-based manner
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
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Germany is a conquered country under US occupation.

You're not giving enough credit to the Deutschland man.

This is the 2nd time in a 100 years they rose from the ashes and are dominating Europe again.

And this time, they did it without an army even.
 
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