Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
You guys should have listened to LKY of Singapore and the country may have been at a better stage already.
Click to expand...
@Bellum_Romanum Sorry bro I disagree, with all due respect to LKY, ruling a city state is different from managing an archipelagic country with a population of 108 million people. I'm not belittling him, he is an icon of his era BUT to say to follow his advise without knowing our local condition First is why we had this problem in the first place. We follow the advise of multiple International institution, instead of advancing we regress and they blame us for not being aggressive in implementing THEIR policy. Success has many fathers and failure is an orphan...lol
 
Last edited:
S

SAC

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Like him or hate him, John Pilger seems to be vindicating Sampan Vikings assertions regarding the West and Ukraine:
 
P

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
weig2000 said:
This is grade-school level or childish thinking. Russia is a great power and has broader and more strategic considerations than a country like, say Lithuania.

Didn't want to go into details 'cause they're pretty obvious (for one, China is Russia's neighbor). I posted an article not long ago here (or in another relevant thread) by Dmitri Trenin of Moscow Carnegie Center about Russia's strategy and role in the current and future world in which he clearly said forced to choose, China is more important than the West to Russia. Search and check out his article.
Click to expand...
The West failed to take the necessary steps to bring Russia into the Western fold following the collapse of the Soviet Union in the same way it did for Japan and Germany after WWII. Instead it continued the expansion of NATO to isolate Russia. But China is now the #1 “threat”.

The relationship between Russia and China evolved considerably over the last 50 years. Right now the two are best friends for obvious geopolitical reasons. That doesn’t mean it won’t evolve again in the next 20 years+ as China becomes much stronger than Russia creating an unbalanced friendship. There are no permanent friends. And fundamentally Russia is a European country with portions of its population yearning to be part of the West.

it would be wise for the US to create divisions between Russia and China, just as it would be wise for China to create plans if such eventuality ever came true.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
The West failed to take the necessary steps to bring Russia into the Western fold following the collapse of the Soviet Union in the same way it did for Japan and Germany after WWII. Instead it continued the expansion of NATO to isolate Russia. But China is now the #1 “threat”.

The relationship between Russia and China evolved considerably over the last 50 years. Right now the two are best friends for obvious geopolitical reasons. That doesn’t mean it won’t evolve again in the next 20 years+ as China becomes much stronger than Russia creating an unbalanced friendship. There are no permanent friends. And fundamentally Russia is a European country with portions of its population yearning to be part of the West.

it would be wise for the US to create divisions between Russia and China, just as it would be wise for China to create plans if such eventuality ever came true.
Click to expand...
I have seen many kinds of arguments like this in the West. That Russia is fundamentally a Christian-European civilisation. That Russia and the West must eventually join hands to take down Communist China. I think this is a very flawed view of what Russia actually is: an Eurasian Country. Russians are actually not just all White Christians as the West always imagines them to be. There are Cossacks, Dagestani Muslims, Siberians, Kazakhs, Mongols, etc. Only in Russian films, can we see the appearance of non-White Russians actors. I don't recall one Western film about Russia that portrays any Russian minorities. Its a big misconception in the West to assume that Russia is a homogenous, white-Christian nation.

There was a time when Russia was a true Christian-European nation. That was the Russian Empire. It joined the West and Japan in carving up China. But still the West and Japan eventually betrayed Russia. The Russian Empire didn't last for more than 20 years since the Boxer Rebellion. And everytime when there are great political revolutions in Russia, ie.: The Russian Civil War of 1917, and the fall of the Soviet Union. The Western countries are always there to meddle and make the situation worse. Germany, a fellow Christian-European civilisation, waged wars on Russia twice, 1914 and 1941. I find it hilarious when German Christian fanatics expect Russia to embrace Germany instead of China.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union. What has China and West had done to Russia? Both relationships were not perfect. But Russia's relationship with the West is the most damaging. The West have been a clear and present danger to the security of the Russian state. NATO moved Eastwards, economic sanctions, wealth stripping of the Russian economy, abandonment of arms control treaties, Color Revolutions, destruction of Russia-friendly nations, promotion of Russophobia in Russia's own neighbourhood, etc. Name any of China's crimes against Russia that is anywhere nearly as bad.

The West never thinks of Russia as an equal. The so-called, European Christian alliance is joke. The West actually wants to recruit Russia, like India, and Japan to fight China and die on their behalf. That's all.

Even if the West becomes friendly again to Russia. Why should Russia only choose one side? Why can't Russia be friends to both the West and China? Putin was originally trying to pursue that. But the West never respected Russia as an equal. China did. That's why Russia trusts China far more than the West. There is no such thing as a Russian destiny to join the European Christian civilisaton club. That club means nothing to Russia, and its filled with imperialism and betrayals.
 
P

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Sardaukar20 said:
I have seen many kinds of arguments like this in the West. That Russia is fundamentally a Christian-European civilisation. That Russia and the West must eventually join hands to take down Communist China. I think this is a very flawed view of what Russia actually is: an Eurasian Country. Russians are actually not just all White Christians as the West always imagines them to be. There are Cossacks, Dagestani Muslims, Siberians, Kazakhs, Mongols, etc. Only in Russian films, can we see the appearance of non-White Russians actors. I don't recall one Western film about Russia that portrays any Russian minorities. Its a big misconception in the West to assume that Russia is a homogenous, white-Christian nation.

There was a time when Russia was a true Christian-European nation. That was the Russian Empire. It joined the West and Japan in carving up China. But still the West and Japan eventually betrayed Russia. The Russian Empire didn't last for more than 20 years since the Boxer Rebellion. And everytime when there are great political revolutions in Russia, ie.: The Russian Civil War of 1917, and the fall of the Soviet Union. The Western countries are always there to meddle and make the situation worse. Germany, a fellow Christian-European civilisation, waged wars on Russia twice, 1914 and 1941. I find it hilarious when German Christian fanatics expect Russia to embrace Germany instead of China.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union. What has China and West had done to Russia? Both relationships were not perfect. But Russia's relationship with the West is the most damaging. The West have been a clear and present danger to the security of the Russian state. NATO moved Eastwards, economic sanctions, wealth stripping of the Russian economy, abandonment of arms control treaties, Color Revolutions, destruction of Russia-friendly nations, promotion of Russophobia in Russia's own neighbourhood, etc. Name any of China's crimes against Russia that is anywhere nearly as bad.

The West never thinks of Russia as an equal. The so-called, European Christian alliance is joke. The West actually wants to recruit Russia, like India, and Japan to fight China and die on their behalf. That's all.

Even if the West becomes friendly again to Russia. Why should Russia only choose one side? Why can't Russia be friends to both the West and China? Putin was originally trying to pursue that. But the West never respected Russia as an equal. China did. That's why Russia trusts China far more than the West. There is no such thing as a Russian destiny to join the European Christian civilisaton club. That club means nothing to Russia, and its filled with imperialism and betrayals.
Click to expand...
Valid points regarding the various ethnic minorities in Russia, and Russia is indeed an Eurasian country due to it's sheer size

But 70% of its population lives in the European part of Russia, including Moscow, St. Perterburg, Nizhny, Novgorod, Kazan, etc... And these people dominate the rest of the country.
The origins of Russia as a nation is also in Europe beginning with the first Slavic State. Russian language belongs to the Slavic group of
European languages. Russian Orthodox Christianity, culture, architecture, genetics, art, etc.. are all European in nature.

China was friends with Russia until it was not, and then became friends again, and mostly in the last 20 years. Relationships change, especially as Central Asia becomes a battleground for influence, and US strategic outlook pivots to China.

Russia and China are friends now, but the root of jealousy and resent always start when one friend becomes much stronger than the other. Russia has a relatively small population and even smaller economy vis-a-vie china. Its economy is undiversified and technology rapidly surpassed by China. China may treat Russia as an equal now, but that may not be true in the future. And deep down China would also still like to be friends with the United States.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top