Ukrainian War Developments

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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Few differences :
Yanukovych was elected by the mayority of the voters, democtraticly, and he tried to get the best deal from the EU and Russia. When Russia gaves better deal, he choose them. As an answer the CIA organised a coup against them ,and forcibly removed him and the elected pairlament/ goverment from the picture to harm Russia .

That caused a collapse of Ukraine, the level of living and the economy.

Nice job, CIA .
Yep, Russia didn't push Battista out but the US and Nato helped Yanukovych out... The result is more of the same, Cuba economy collapsed and Ukraine economy too. Meddling with other affairs create a mess and it will be the Ukrainian citizen that will pay the price. Pointing fingers at Russia only for Ukraine problems is hypocrisy.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Yep, Russia didn't push Battista out but the US and Nato helped Yanukovych out... The result is more of the same, Cuba economy collapsed and Ukraine economy too. Meddling with other affairs create a mess and it will be the Ukrainian citizen that will pay the price. Pointing fingers at Russia only for Ukraine problems is hypocrisy.
Cuba outperforming its neighbours, Ukraine underperforing them .
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
I see the situation like a reverse Cuban crisis, we can draw parallels between the two events :

For the Cuban crisis:

1) U.S. government had supported Batista, a former soldier and Cuban dictator

2) Batista is forcibly removed from power by a revolution, shutting US influences and putting in pro-Russian leader.

3) Bay of Pigs Invasion to turn the tide but failed, US still keep Guatanamo bay.

4) Cuba accept establishment of Russian missile base provocking a US menace to invade and mass troops making a blockade.

5) Third world war imminent but Soviet leader offer to remove the Cuban missiles in exchange for the U.S. promising not to invade Cuba. Cuban got busted with sanctions of his past bosses (US) and didn't get all the help needed for his new one (URSS).

What is happening in Ukraine:

1) Russian government had supported President Viktor Yanukovych, a nice pro russian puppet.

2) Yanukovych is forcibly removed from power by a revolution, shutting Russia influences and putting in pro-NATO leader

3) Crimea Invasion to turn the tide but failed, Russia still keep Crimea.

4) Ukraine want to become NATO partner implicating establishment of Nato missile bases provocking a Russian menace to invade and mass troops making a blockade.

5) Third world war imminent but the rest still to be written ?

A few key differences is that the Castro's originally weren't anti-US, they even asked the US for support to oust Batista at one point and were obviously rebuked. The US increasing antagonism is what pushed them towards the USSR.

Also, the deployment of soviet missiles was a response to the US putting Jupiter MRBM in Turkey. JFK was more gung ho than people give him credit for just because he got shot.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
A few key differences is that the Castro's originally weren't anti-US, they even asked the US for support to oust Batista at one point and were obviously rebuked. The US increasing antagonism is what pushed them towards the USSR.

Also, the deployment of soviet missiles was a response to the US putting Jupiter MRBM in Turkey. JFK was more gung ho than people give him credit for just because he got shot.
@sheogorath bro From Blinken "It's hard for the Russian to leave once they're in your house", from our experience in the Philippine that quote should apply to the US and US alone, they will not leave until they bleed you dry, even your bone will not be wasted as they feed you to the dogs.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Just read this on r/sino

So US and NATO spent over 20 years expanding NATO’s border until its right up against Russia. The Russians have given them a written demand and the US have responded with a secret response! What could be in their response that warrant this much mystery? What kind of bargain is America going to ask Russia that is worth over 20 years of effort? I think they’re gonna ask Russia to join them against China. I think they’re gonna dangle the prospect of being let back in the G7, removal of sanctions, access to EU markets and the US, and pushing back NATO’s border back to the 1997 border, certification of the Nordstream pipeline for cooperation against China. I’m taking bets
America is willing to screw Europe if its design for Asia can be realized. Giving Russia access to more EU markets and withdraw of NATO back to 97 border would be pretty big incentives for Russia to abandon China. Except China is a bigger market than the EU in the long term. Russian economy benefits more right now, and in the future if it's more integrated with Asia.
 
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weig2000

Captain
America is willing to screw Europe if its design for Asia can be realized. Giving Russia access to more EU markets and withdraw of NATO back to 97 border would be pretty big incentives for Russia to abandon China. Except China is a bigger market than the EU in the long term. Russian economy benefits more right now, and in the future if it's more integrated with Asia.

This is grade-school level or childish thinking. Russia is a great power and has broader and more strategic considerations than a country like, say Lithuania.

Didn't want to go into details 'cause they're pretty obvious (for one, China is Russia's neighbor). I posted an article not long ago here (or in another relevant thread) by Dmitri Trenin of Moscow Carnegie Center about Russia's strategy and role in the current and future world in which he clearly said forced to choose, China is more important than the West to Russia. Search and check out his article.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Is is really that difficult to see that Putin has a Napoleonic complex? And that he’s really nothing but a Mafia-boss styled thug. Dude takes “Macho Man” shirtless pics; c’mon man!!!???

There’s a difference between someone that’s potentially politically useful and someone that’s admirable. Just because Putin’s charades might benefit China doesn’t mean that he’s either admirable or particularly smart.
If Putin were some geo-political genius, he’d have re-oriented Russian political, military, and economic policies away from Europe and towards China and Iran long ago. Instead, he continues selling weapons to one of China’s principal regional antagonists and groveling for attention from the west.

Putin might be useful, he is not admirable!
Exactly. Putin is potentially useful, but not admirable.

Russia invasion of Crimea is against international law, just like Tsarist Russia's illegal annexation of Qing Chinese territory (e.g., Unequal treaties). Just because Russia is useful against US/West doesn't mean China views it's annexation as "legal" in any sense of the word because it sets up a negative precedent that will backfire in your face when it happens to weakened China (again) just like Qing times. As a matter of principle, I don't support annexations based on race/ethnic kinship, since that will open the door for irredentism on Chinese territory.

Why do people think China has a problem with Russia selling arms to India? Even Alex Gabuev recently argued China might be tempted in the future to coerce Russia to stop those arms sales. How is making India buy more American weapons a plus for China? China probably want India to buy Russian and only Russian arms.
US ain't going to sell F-22s or F-35s to India or Vietnam, but if Russia sells 5th gen Checkmates to India or Vietnam, this violates a redline since it changes the balance of power in the South China Sea. If Russia is a true ally of China, it would not arm Vietnam with Checkmates in the SCS. We will see if China uses it's influence/leverage to stop these arm-sales in the future.
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
@sheogorath bro From Blinken "It's hard for the Russian to leave once they're in your house", from our experience in the Philippine that quote should apply to the US and US alone, they will not leave until they bleed you dry, even your bone will not be wasted as they feed you to the dogs.
America is like that former lover that can't seem to accept NO for an answer. They were kicked out from the Philippines per referendum back in the 90's and yet somehow it weaseled itself back into your country. I have a nagging suspicion that your separatist movements like the N.P.A. and other Islamic elements in your country are being supported by America. They need to keep feeding those elements to keep you guys bogged down somehow in order for your country to NEED American military presence. It also ensure that your country's military security will remain captive under American influence and machinations. It also ensures a deep psychological message to the masses that American military might will always be needed when it comes to any serious military conflict and that's why the U.S. military has a potent appeal amongst the Filipinos.

In my opinion, your intelligence agencies if there's even any, are littered with American spies from the C.I.A. and others that's been operating in that country for decades which is amazing that Duterte managed to upend the Philippines politics upside down and totally disrupted American playbook in the Philippines where it now must spend more and compete with China's holistic approach to the country.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
America is like that former lover that can't seem to accept NO for an answer. They were kicked out from the Philippines per referendum back in the 90's and yet somehow it weaseled itself back into your country. I have a nagging suspicion that your separatist movements like the N.P.A. and other Islamic elements in your country are being supported by America. They need to keep feeding those elements to keep you guys bogged down somehow in order for your country to NEED American military presence. It also ensure that your country's military security will remain captive under American influence and machinations. It also ensures a deep psychological message to the masses that American military might will always be needed when it comes to any serious military conflict and that's why the U.S. military has a potent appeal amongst the Filipinos.
@Bellum_Romanum bro IF we remained poor, the only way out of poverty and survived is to be a slave and IF you had to choose ,an American burger taste better than a rice with a piece of Tuyo (dried smoke fish). It's an economic issue, Filipino's are an emotional people, we had been robbed of our National Identity cause our leaders betray us and sell us out for a dollar/Yen/Spanish peso. Like the Chinese who experienced the same during the hundred years of Humiliation, we need a bloody revolution to cleanse the society of parasite. BUT we won't as we know the American will never leave us, so we are pinning our hope on a resurgent China, in this way we may have the space and used that to develop and nurture our National identity.
In my opinion, your intelligence agencies if there's even any, are littered with American spies from the C.I.A. and others that's been operating in that country for decades which is amazing that Duterte managed to upend the Philippines politics upside down and totally disrupted American playbook in the Philippines where it now must spend more and compete with China's holistic approach to the country.
Brother initial step to achieved complete independence from the US is to change our constitution from the current US style of gov't to one that suit ours like the French type a mixed Presidential and parliamentary system. In this way our politics will change as we follow our owned destiny rather than look to America for guidance.
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Bellum_Romanum bro IF we remained poor, the only way out of poverty and survived is to be a slave and IF you had to choose ,an American burger taste better than a rice with a piece of Tuyo (dried smoke fish). It's an economic issue, Filipino's are an emotional people, we had been robbed of our National Identity cause our leaders betray us and sell us out for a dollar/Yen/Spanish peso. Like the Chinese who experienced the same during the hundred years of Humiliation, we need a bloody revolution to cleanse the society of parasite. BUT we won't as we know the American will never leave us, so we are pinning our hope on a resurgent China, in this way we may have the space and used that to develop and nurture our National identity.

Brother initial step to achieved complete independence from the US is to change our constitution from the current US style of gov't to one that suit ours like the French type a mixed Presidential and parliamentary system. In this way our politics will change as we follow our owned destiny rather than look to America for guidance.
You guys should have listened to LKY of Singapore and the country may have been at a better stage already.
 
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