R u john Bolton
Ukrainian War Developments
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If its the Marshall Ustinov (Northern Fleet) and the Varyag (Pacific Fleet) yes, but the Moskva is junk. The ship is not upgraded, its half way to the scrapyard, hasn't operated decently in years since 2012.
The three Admiral Grigorovich class frigates are infinitely more valuable to the Russian Navy than the Moskva, and recent combat actions shows they were. As for the Kirov class, Russia has decide to scrap all but the Peter the Great and the Admiral Nakhimov which is undergoing refit. IMO, the money would have been better spent on another Gorshkov class frigate.
I think the sinking of the Moskva, as the flag ship of the Black Sea Fleet, is a big propaganda win for the Ukrainians and a great morale booster. I don't know how the ship was set ablaze - perhaps internal handling error of ammunitions is the cause - but that honestly isn't too important. If the ship is confirmed to be scuttled, that's all the matters as far as the psychological effects are concerned.
On a strategic level though, what does the sinking of the cruiser actually change? Russia still has indisputed command of the sea, and will continue to blockade Ukrainian ports - the few that are still controlled by Ukraine. Perhaps the Russians will become more cautious in how they use their naval assets, but the status quo essentially will hold. The three Grigorovich frigates are still there to provide air cover for the naval base, and units from the Caspian Sea that can be called. The Russians can lose several more ships and this high-level picture wouldn't change.
Perhaps the loss of the cruiser will weaken Russia's hand in case NATO countries do intervene, but in that case they got a lot more to worry about...
Well, I just hope the flag staff weren't on board and most (if not all) of the crew were evacuated. Otherwise it would be a devastating loss. If Moskva is as runned-down as the comments say, then why is it still the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet? At the very minimum the S-300F and long range radar provides a necessary capability that Russia needs.
I agree with your comment. I know this particular ship was refitted or went under in half MLU last decade. I think they planned on keeping this one a bit longer. Those large anti-ship missiles could have some use under right conditions.
Going forward, I think they will build large versions of the Gorshkov frigates to become defacto DDGs. Although they might need to enlarge the superstructure to house larger radars, but everything will depend on cost and how much funding the navy gets.
This conflict has validated the use of cruise missiles indeed. And I think most modern missiles nowadays have dual mode features that allows them to function in multiple roles, like the Bastion and SM-6. Even some ATGM have a minimal anti-air functions in them as well.
No, a Slava class is by no means the equivalent of any aegis equipped cruiser or destroyer. The Soviets never fielded a ship that is either the equivalent, or a match, of any aegis equipped ships. the Slava’s air defense combat capabilities are far less versatile and capable. In fact its air defense against a saturation attack is even less versatile in many respects than the 1970s generation of American missile cruisers such as the Virginia and California classes. It’s area air is restricted by having just one single mechanically steered missile director that restricted its engagements to just a 60 degree sector. An simultaneous attack separated by more than 60 degrees will overwhelm it.
In all honesty, the Unmodernized Slava is not survivable at all in an modern naval combat environment. The truth is 1980s Soviet naval fleet was in fact not survivable against even the 1980s US naval force in any drawn out combat. The Soviet fleet depended entirely on being able to score critical hits with a volley of 350+ mile range nuclear tipped anti ship cruise missiles. If those missiles did not largely cripple US carrier based striking power, then the Soviet surface fleet had no more realistic role to play because it would be largely destroyed in the retribution for the initial cruise missile volley.
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The cruiser has missile load thats not the question. the point is why it hasnt fired anything yet in 50 days. when drones are floating in that area. normally the older missile load it empty.
than there is cannon and machine guns that also not utilized coastal area. it seems RuNavy was not fully confident in its self defense capability. this thing takes 400 to 500 people to operate and many more to maintain.
The Russian Navy, and going back to the Soviet and the Tsarist Navy, has a history where the politicians want to do the grandoise (and show off) thing, while the admirals want to do the practical (and the right) thing. IMO, certain politicians, possibly Putin himself, want the ship out of the dock as a show of strength, while the admirals think of it as a dumb idea behind his back. I won't be surprised if the Moskva is operating at the bare minimum, with the best human and material resources concentrated on the three Admiral Grigorovich class frigates and the handful of modern corvettes.
Sorry, Slovakia indeed.
The Type 052 Harbin, or is it the Qingdao, is still technically the flagship of the Northern Sea fleet for the Chinese Navy, despite the Liaoning and the Nanchang over there. The ship is literally outdated compared to every member of the Northern Sea Fleet.
The S300F the Moskva has is very outdated. The two RIF-M systems that were sold to China to become part of the Type 051C, were supposed to be for the last two Kirov class battlecruisers that were never built, and is well more advanced than than what the Moskva has. I would have to consider that the Type 051C's RIF-M is already outdated compared to the 052C's system, much less the 052D, and much less the 055's.
The Moskva's fire control radar has an arcane arrangement, compared to the more modern phase array the S-300PMU and the RIF-M on the Type 051C has.
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If the S300F still works the Moskva may still be useful against any drone or UAV the Ukrainians may put up, but I suspect the system may no longer be operable, that it may already have been cannibalized to keep those on the Marshall Ustinov and the Varyag working. I doubt that any new parts are made for the older system and the Russian Navy intends to retire all three ships some years from now as more Admiral Gorshkov class frigates come online.
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