Ukrainian War Developments

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sorry for this misunderstanding .... in fact this thread is a mess and we as the moderators are currently considering to close it entirely in order to come back to our once "bread & butter business", namely "Sino Defence" or eventually to leave it open only as a news thread without allowing ANY political comment. We once had a golden rule and IMO it was fine albeit always difficult to handle.

But these days, in fact no-one of us is any longer able or in the mood to read all the post, to sort out what's just reporting news, what's propaganda, what's an opinion one must accept and what's beyond anything acceptable, that needs urgent consequences.

So that's it.
Political comments aside, this thread has been IMO exceptional on how many news have been posted here. However I also understand that given how fast people post here, it is challenging for mods to keep up with it.

Have you considered adding a temporary mod to exclusively moderate this thread?
 

MrCrazyBoyRavi

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sorry for this misunderstanding .... in fact this thread is a mess and we as the moderators are currently considering to close it entirely in order to come back to our once "bread & butter business", namely "Sino Defence" or eventually to leave it open only as a news thread without allowing ANY political comment. We once had a golden rule and IMO it was fine albeit always difficult to handle.

But these days, in fact no-one of us is any longer able or in the mood to read all the post, to sort out what's just reporting news, what's propaganda, what's an opinion one must accept and what's beyond anything acceptable, that needs urgent consequences.

So that's it.
Umm don’t close the thread. Instead just make it news only & strictly ban stupid political commentary. This thread is probably one of the best online column to read news from both side of spectrum in current war.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The loss of the Slava will go down in the history books and be discussed and analysed for decades to come.

I have no doubt NATO has all the details of what happened in forensic detail, but the silence from official sources is very interesting, and concerning when we contrast that with previous loud and public cheerleading they have been doing about Russian losses.

I think right now everyone is holding their breath in stunned silence as this is a blow way beyond anything NATO would have imagined when they supplied Ukraine with AShMs.

I think they might have hoped (but not expected) to hit a few corvettes or maybe a frigate at most, with the missiles primarily meant to serve as annoyance more than expecting to score major kills.

If it was NATO supplied missiles and NATO provided ISR and live missile targeting that killed the Moskva, then it would be hard to argue against this being seen as a de facto direct attack by NATO on Russia. NATO would certainly see it that way if China provided, say the Yemeni Houthis with AShMs and had PLAAF ISR platforms on station when said Chinese supplied AShMs were used to kill an USN Tico.

This is a massive humiliation for Russia, and humiliation easily turns to rage.

It is an incredibly dangerous time right now as Putin decides how he wants to respond.

I would say everything is on the table right now, because of how ineptly the Russian military has performance so far leaves Putin with few good options.
 

Terrowyn

New Member
Registered Member
Russian Ministry of Defense:

▪️ The source of fire on the cruiser "Moskva" is localized. There is no open fire. Explosions of ammunition have been stopped.

▪️ Cruiser "Moskva" keeps buoyancy. The main missile armament was not damaged.

▪️ The crew was evacuated to the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in the area.

▪️ Measures are being taken to tow the cruiser to the port.

▪️ The cause of the fire is under investigation.


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SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The loss of the Slava will go down in the history books and be discussed and analysed for decades to come.

I have no doubt NATO has all the details of what happened in forensic detail, but the silence from official sources is very interesting, and concerning when we contrast that with previous loud and public cheerleading they have been doing about Russian losses.

I think right now everyone is holding their breath in stunned silence as this is a blow way beyond anything NATO would have imagined when they supplied Ukraine with AShMs.

I think they might have hoped (but not expected) to hit a few corvettes or maybe a frigate at most, with the missiles primarily meant to serve as annoyance more than expecting to score major kills.

If it was NATO supplied missiles and NATO provided ISR and live missile targeting that killed the Moskva, then it would be hard to argue against this being seen as a de facto direct attack by NATO on Russia. NATO would certainly see it that way if China provided, say the Yemeni Houthis with AShMs and had PLAAF ISR platforms on station when said Chinese supplied AShMs were used to kill an USN Tico.

This is a massive humiliation for Russia, and humiliation easily turns to rage.

It is an incredibly dangerous time right now as Putin decides how he wants to respond.

I would say everything is on the table right now, because of how ineptly the Russian military has performance so far leaves Putin with few good options.
Whatever actually happened, it does illustrate one key feature that has not really been discussed up to now.
This is the fact that NATO has as much pride invested in this war as Russia has and that a Russian victory would be regarded by NATO as a defeat.

So we have gone from a Civil/Sectarian War to a full proxy war with a lot of potential to become a full on NATO/CSTO confrontation.
A very dangerous escalation. I cannot believe that there will not be matching escalation form the Russian side.
 
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