Ukrainian War Developments

Tam said:

I won't be surprised if the Moskva is operating at the bare minimum, with the best human and material resources concentrated on the three Admiral Grigorovich class frigates and the handful of modern corvettes.

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Richard Santos said:

No, a Slava class is by no means the equivalent of any aegis equipped cruiser or destroyer. The Soviets never fielded a ship that is either the equivalent, or a match, of any aegis equipped ships. the Slava’s air defense combat capabilities are far less versatile and capable. In fact its air defense against a saturation attack is even less versatile in many respects than the 1970s generation of American missile cruisers such as the Virginia and California classes. It’s area air is restricted by having just one single mechanically steered missile director that restricted its engagements to just a 60 degree sector. An simultaneous attack separated by more than 60 degrees will overwhelm it.

In all honesty, the Unmodernized Slava is not survivable at all in an modern naval combat environment. The truth is 1980s Soviet naval fleet was in fact not survivable against even the 1980s US naval force in any drawn out combat. The Soviet fleet depended entirely on being able to score critical hits with a volley of 350+ mile range nuclear tipped anti ship cruise missiles. If those missiles did not largely cripple US carrier based striking power, then the Soviet surface fleet had no more realistic role to play because it would be largely destroyed in the retribution for the initial cruise missile volley.

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Zichan said:

I heard that Putin ordered the ship scuttled to serve as an artificial reef and environmental compensation for the disturbance of the local wildlife during the special operation.

Don’t worry. Everything is going according to Russia’s plan.

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Tam said:

The Type 052 Harbin, or is it the Qingdao, is still technically the flagship of the Northern Sea fleet for the Chinese Navy, despite the Liaoning and the Nanchang over there. The ship is literally outdated compared to every member of the Northern Sea Fleet.

The S300F the Moskva has is very outdated. The two RIF-M systems that were sold to China to become part of the Type 051C, were supposed to be for the last two Kirov class battlecruisers that were never built, and is well more advanced than than what the Moskva has. I would have to consider that the Type 051C's RIF-M is already outdated compared to the 052C's system, much less the 052D, and much less the 055's.

The Moskva's fire control radar has an arcane arrangement, compared to the more modern phase array the S-300PMU and the RIF-M on the Type 051C has.

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If the S300F still works the Moskva may still be useful against any drone or UAV the Ukrainians may put up, but I suspect the system may no longer be operable, that it may already have been cannibalized to keep those on the Marshall Ustinov and the Varyag working. I doubt that any new parts are made for the older system and the Russian Navy intends to retire all three ships some years from now as more Admiral Gorshkov class frigates come online.

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Deino said:

Hmm ... really?


All is going according to plan?

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Zichan said:

Deino, it was sarcasm.

There's no way going around the fact that this is a major blow to Russian pride. In the words of the Putin whisperer Alexander Dugin, this war is in large part about the Russian collective ego and their belief that it is in Russia's destiny to be a major power and respected actor on the world stage. This war hasn't exactly helped put Russia in the kind of spotlight he was hoping for.

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