Ukrainian War Developments

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ougoah

Brigadier
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I think the loss of this cruiser maybe an serious moral embarrassment, but it is not a serious military loss. This cruiser’s role is broadly similar to those of the recommissioned Iowa class battleship that the US navy deployed. It looks formidable in peacetime, and that actually is the majority of its value and justification for existence In war t it is a glorified missile barge with negligible self defense capability and poor prospect for survival incongruous with it demand for trained men power. In war against any serious naval opponent it will never get within range to use its missile battery.

one should not be too fixated on its 10k tons. this ship is more an ornament then a seriously valuable military asset.

What? It has plenty of self defence. If this is the logic, then why Ticonderoga, why Sejong, why Maya class, why plan Lider class, why USN planning a new cruiser, why Type 055?

Sure these boats are much more modern but Slava Class has over 100 range range and long range missiles and as many as 6 CIWS guns. Yeah the radar, electronics, and missiles even are relatively outdated but the missiles are kinematically capable.

It is a missile barge but has far more than "negligible self defense capability".
 

escobar

Brigadier
Impose a no fly zone already and we will see :cool:
RU soldiers are being killed with direct NATO support and they are unable to deter that and you talk about NFZ. Lol ok. Putin is a very weak scared man and NATO is more than willing continue to escalate this war Well into the Russian border. Also US moving nuclear bombs into the UK again
 
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Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is the biggest loss for Russia in the war so far. Forget the armor loss or the strategic retreat from the north.

Losing a flag ship is just symbolic devastating. A superpower military power is always symbolized by their Navy and a capital ship or a flag ship symbolize their prestige in military technology and engineer.

Tactically, this loss shouldn't matter as much although the missiles on board are also a huge loss, but strategic this loss is very devastating symbolically to Russia.
If Russia keeps half-sizing this war and not fight it like what it really is--a war--they will suffer more significant losses.
 

foxmulder

Junior Member
This is the biggest loss for Russia in the war so far. Forget the armor loss or the strategic retreat from the north.

Losing a flag ship is just symbolic devastating. A superpower military power is always symbolized by their Navy and a capital ship or a flag ship symbolize their prestige in military technology and engineer.

Tactically, this loss shouldn't matter as much although the missiles on board are also a huge loss, but strategic this loss is very devastating symbolically to Russia.
If Russia keeps half-sizing this war and not fight it like what it is really is--a war--they will suffer more significant losses.

Well, if this is true it is embarrassing but not surprising. Russia is doing this halfheartedly and NATO is pouring *all* its support bar actual direct contact with Russia. If it goes like this I do *not* expect any more gains by Russia. Russia, evidently, does not have capability, capacity, and will.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
All those missiles haven shot down anything for so long period.
What? It has plenty of self defence. If this is the logic, then why Ticonderoga, why Sejong, why Maya class, why plan Lider class, why USN planning a new cruiser, why Type 055?

Sure these boats are much more modern but Slava Class has over 100 range range and long range missiles and as many as 6 CIWS guns. Yeah the radar, electronics, and missiles even are relatively outdated but the missiles are kinematically capable.

It is a missile barge but has far more than "negligible self defense capability".
the point is there is no known use of these missiles from the cruiser. when there are reports of drones coming over blacksea.
pics of missile from land not from sea.
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PhSt

Junior Member
Registered Member
RU soldiers are being killed with direct NATO support and they are unable to deter this and you talk about NFZ. Lol ok

Again, Impose No Fly zone or bring in official NATO combatants to Ukraine, otherwise NATO is afraid. Very Afraid.

Also, the vast expanse of liberated Novorossiya and Malorussia is a very good compensation in exchange for the disabling of the Moskva as a result of Brazen and Cowardly NATzO aggression. Once Russia is finished with its Denazification of Eastern Europe, Putin will turn his attention to Denazifying your country next :cool:
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
All those missiles haven shot down anything for so long period.

the point is there is no known use of these missiles from the cruiser. when there are reports of drones coming over blacksea.
pics of missile from land not from sea.
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Not sure what you mean here but my point was to refute the idea that Slava Class has no air defence. It does and it has an impressive size of air defence missiles from long range (S-300), short range (SA-N-4), and CIWS guns.

Now the question is why was it hit... of course assuming it was hit by AShM. Was the crew negligent, was there some sort of NATO EW effort? That's the interesting part of the event. I doubt crews are that incompetent and I doubt systems all switched off in active war zone while potential to be attacked. Knowing Ukraine has its own anti-ship missiles and NATO supplied some as well.

Which means how was the AD so easily overcome? We don't know for sure if the Slava Class was hit by AShM and if so hit by how many and how many AShMs were launched at it. Did it manage to intercept any? Did the AD not even react? etc etc.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is the biggest loss for Russia in the war so far. Forget the armor loss or the strategic retreat from the north.

Losing a flag ship is just symbolic devastating. A superpower military power is always symbolized by their Navy and a capital ship or a flag ship symbolize their prestige in military technology and engineer.

Tactically, this loss shouldn't matter as much although the missiles on board are also a huge loss, but strategic this loss is very devastating symbolically to Russia.
If Russia keeps half-sizing this war and not fight it like what it really is--a war--they will suffer more significant losses.

That ship is garbage. For many years Russia is trying to decide yes or no to scrap it. Suddenly they decided to fix it up and run it, and its not without any problems. I'm not even sure if the weapons systems are running or they are even present.

The real loss is the scrap metal it could have provided for the Russian economy.

In the meantime, the Russians are also claiming that Kalibr missiles from the Admiral Essen frigate took out the Serbian donated S300PMU. If true, and the Ukr is denying it while sat photos appear that the area has indeed been hit, this validates the use and importance of the naval Kalibrs, and that is something the PLAN needs to look into. The PLAN has been reluctant in deploying land targeting cruise missiles on their ships. I should add that the Moskva is incapable of using the Kalibr without halving or removing its naval S300 RIF-M system, which is why the Russian Navy appears set in dead ending the class. Another thing to note is that the dual use Kh-35U, which is an antiship missile now upgraded to hit land targets, has been used against many targets, and that validates the PLAN going dual use for their YJ-83 antiship missile. I should add that the Russians also claim that one of the frigates, either the Essen or the Grigorovich, has managed a Bayraktar kill using the Shtil missile, making it the first kill from the naval VLS version of the Buk.

I am going to add that the Moskva blowing up on its own is entirely plausible, given the embarrassing safety record of the Russian Navy, ranging from the sinking of the Kursk submarine to the near blowup of the Sovremenny class Bystry in 2012 (ship started burning and nearly blew up, but saved by the heroic efforts of a young lad, who died because of it, was awarded Hero of Russia posthumously and an advanced corvette named after him). This parallels the 1943 blow up of the Japanese battleship Mutsu, where almost all hands died, which happened on its own without American action.
 
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PhSt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Also US moving nuclear bombs into the UK again

Such a provocative move by US Nazis deserves a noble response from Russia by moving nuclear bombs close to US borders like in Venezuela and Cuba. This is a win-win situation for the global coalition for Denazification
 
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