Ukrainian War Developments

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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
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No, I admit to supporting an Anti-Imperialism narrative (whether American or Russian).

So only US can do imperialism, but Russia is not capable of imperialism? What is with the double-standards?

Russia-China are strongly aligned, not allies. There is no formal treaty alliance between Russia and China, so I don't need to blindly support every single Russian action like a blind bot.

There is nothing wrong to support a friend economically, but China should never openly support Russia's actions and stay neutral at UNSC. It's too obvious brazen actions.

China is already targeted by the West. This is why I support strong alignment with Russia against NATO/West. Doesn't stop me from correctly pointing out legitimate criticism of Russian actions. If you don't like it, it just means you are insecure and easily triggered and overly sensitive.

I never cared what West thought of China's neutral stance. China's neutral stance is aimed at the 3rd world (Africa, Southeast Asia, Middle East, etc...), not towards West.

True, the West hates China. Okay, you can still be strongly aligned with Russia, but stay neutral in UNSC. I do not support a formal treaty alliance with Russia because it will pull China into Russia's adventurisms in Eastern Europe and Middle East that do not directly benefit China.

My reality is perfectly reasonable: "China should support a weaker imperialist (Russia) against a stronger imperialist (USA)." You are overly sensitive of any legitimate criticism of RUssia, which speaks more about your insecurity, than my "pro-US imperialism" status.


KMT-ROC was a bigger US puppet than Yelstin's Russia because KMT-ROC was utterly dependent on US aid and donations during WW2. So no, your point is moot. KMT-ROC still didn't recognize Tibetan independence despite being a pro-US puppet.


So everytime someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of being a "Westoid Puppet". Got it.

Is there proof that Yelstin or Gorbachev was a "Westeroid Puppet" for recognizing Ukrainian independence in 1989? It's too easy to simply accuse others of being a "Westoid Puppet" without any evidence.

The collapse of Soviet Union and recognition of Ukrainian independence is illegitimate because it was all done by "Westeroid puppets"? Do you have evidence that Yelstin/Gorbachev was a Western puppet?

This is a "False Dilemma" fallacy:

You present a false dilemma option:
1. Anti-Russian narrative
2. Anti-US narrative

But you ignore a third choice:

3. Anti-Imperialism narrative (both US and Russia)

But it's so convenient that anyone you disagree with, they are "US Puppets", whether it's Yeltsin/Gorbachev, Ukraine, or even myself. It fundamentally is low-effort propaganda effort.

So by default, policies and decisions made by weak people you disagree with is "Westeroid puppets" because you disagree with them? There is no good faith argument from you. I can easily accuse anyone of being a "Westeroid puppet" and automatically dismiss their argument.

Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a "Puppet" without any evidence. Good to know.

Why does everything have to be black-white with you? This situation is incredibly nuanced and complex, but you simply distill it down to: "Puppet vs. Non-Puppets" world view which is incredibly low-effort propaganda.

Ironic, you call Yelstin/Gorbachev as "Westoid puppets", then proceed to call me pushing "Subjective" one-sided arguments. You don't see how ridiculous you sound.

And no, saying "Russian troops crossing and annexing Ukraine is clearly violation of international law" is perfectly objective, not subjective at all. The fact that you have difficulty acknowledging basic reality speaks volumes.

Yes, I obviously hate white imperialism, whether Russian or American.

I feel like calling out Russian propaganda from yourself to be extremely fulfilling actually.

And you don't regurgitate Russian propaganda?

This is a False Dilemma Fallacy:

You present a false choice:

1. You must support Russia aggression
2. Otherwise, you will support US aggression.

What about a third choice:

3. Support nobody's aggression. (e.g., Neutrality)

Yes, fair enough, glad we can agree.

Yes, fair enough, glad we can agree.

Yes, because I regularly (see my 16 years posting history) of hostility towards American imperialism, so I consider myself pretty neutral.


If you look at my posting history (16 years on SDF), I am clearly anti-NATO expansionism and anti-US imperialism.


Why don't you go through my 16 years of posts on SDF and look for yourself, instead of assuming I am a "Pro-US shill" because your incapability to elaborate why Russian actions is not imperialism, because it obviously is.

You mean I am fighting against imperialist propaganda (whether Russia or American). Look at my post history.

I support China to be neutral at UNSC, but economically support Russia. Why not openly support? It's too brazen and obviously violation of international law.

I agree 100%.

I am saying China should stay neutral in UNSC and not openly support Russia. Why do you so easily get triggered and accuse others of being a "Pro-US shill"?

Good thing I regularly post anti-Western posts to balance it out. Go see my posting history.

Why don't you go through my 16 years posting history on SDF and see how many anti-US imperialism posts I have made?

You are arguing against a strawman. One can acknowledge Russia's deficiencies and still maintain a strong alignment. The world is not black-white extreme as you demand it to be.
KMT-ROC was a bigger US puppet than Yelstin's Russia because KMT-ROC was utterly dependent on US aid and donations during WW2. So no, your point is moot. KMT-ROC still didn't recognize Tibetan independence despite being a pro-US puppet
KMT-ROC maybe reliant materialy, economically from the U.S. but that doesn't mean KMT was dumb enough to trade those material support for essentially giving away territories gained from the previous dynasty without getting decapitated from either within the organization and worst their sworn rival and eventual successor in China which is the CPC. Bear in mind that KMT handed many favorable trade agreements to the Americans and other rules and regulations that would have essentially catered everything to the American led corporations and military basing in the mainland.

So am afraid your point on this particular issue isn't historically accurate nor is it reflective of the situation and context of the KMT short chaotic rule in China.
The collapse of Soviet Union and recognition of Ukrainian independence is illegitimate because it was all done by "Westeroid puppets"? Do you have evidence that Yelstin/Gorbachev was a Western puppet
Yeltsin, Gorbachev were foolish and naive to believe what they thought at the time was the proper thing to do (recognizing Ukraine independence and becoming a dejure country. It's not hard to deduce those individuals intentions along with their hopes and dreams to essentially start a new with a new supposedly superior political and economic system that's going to unleash the potential and economic might of Russia. What was the alternative? If there was one who or which country was available to offer wholesale support? None existed. So those two reviled figures did what they erroneously assumed to be the best of the circumstances they were faced with.

Lest we not forget that much of the world was being swept by the feeling of western/American inevitability, the American triumph hence why Professor Fukuyama was so raptured by the epoch like events occurring almost simultaneously in Europe. The collapse of the Berlin Wall, the euphoria of German people finally reuniting from East and West, then the dissolution of Soviet Union etc...

We can't simply look at the decision made by historical individuals as if they made their choice free from and of coercion or negative inducement pushed forth by the lying west. It's only natural for anyone being in their position to have taken the same approach and choice given the same similar sets of circumstances. Russia and it's leaders no matter how brilliant wouldn't have been able to prevent Ukraine from being granted/recognized as a dejure state.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
As someone who lives in the third world and whose country has had to deal with US imperialism first hand, I'll take anything that hastens the end of the US/NATO white supremacist hegemony, even if it means supporting "lesser imperialism", though I'm still trying to understand how an imperialized country like Russia who got invaded, blockaded and subverted by the west multiple times after 1917 somehow is now imperialist just because the current government is right wing
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
If international law and principles do not matter, then why is China neutral at UNSC and doesn't openly support Russia?
It's done for geopolitical calculations partly and as I have contended earlier, China can't and must not be openly seen or supporting Russian irredentist/revanchist move in Ukraine for strategic reasons. I agree largely with most of your points but am also sympathetic and emotionally inclined in supporting the arguments made by our friends on this forum arguing on behalf of Russian aims and goals on this conflict for obvious reasons: US hypocrisy and might makes right.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
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