Ukrainian War Developments

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Jingle Bells

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pmc said:
They are using special version of Su-34 for EW.
Ukranian said they use manpad to down one. if the flight profile is low altitude EW may not have much time to react.
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Dude, please DON'T misunderstand what I am trying to say.
I am not saying that Russian MIC don't have the capability, or Russian equipment are inherently bad. NO, not the case!

What I am saying and raging against, is this idiotic attitude of prejudice rampant in these "fake-white-people" countries (countries that thinks that being white makes them identical to the rich and developed West). The Russian MIC has always been very good at EW. But the entire military doctrine of Russia forces is freaking weird. It's like they are trying to be different for the sake of being different.

Su-34EW (equivalent of J-16D and EA18G) should have been prioritize over Su-30SM and Su-30M2.

In fact, what even is the point of putting Su-30SM and Su-30M2 into commission? Having even one of these two is already kinda redundant, now you have two!? What's the point?

Why don't the VKS limit the variety of their platforms, and focus on putting money on force multiplier on these platforms. Like instead of purchasing Su30SM, why not just buy Russian made targeting pods and integrate those on all existing fighter-bomber platforms? So that they don't have to drop dumb bombs at dangerously low altitude. Instead of purchasing Su30M2, why not just put money on the Su-34EW?

This is the main problem with the VKS. Russia military seems to have idiotic drunkards staffing their high command who are making decisions on long term procurement. It's like they are purchasing platforms because the project leader of those platform bribed them with vodka.
 
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Richard Santos

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because it happened once it will happy again is not sound thinking. jan 6 changed enoigh things such that the two two impeachments during his term followed a whole different sets of laws of physics in a whole different universe compared to now.

the issue then was how rotten can the system get. the issue now is will the system survive and do we know what will replace it if it doesn’t.
 
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Abominable

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anzha said:
Ukrainian tanks are not immune to the mud.

The routes the Russians - who are advancing! - will follow are easily know and can be prepared for. They can be blocked by those infantry: kill the tanks at the front and cause a massive traffic jam. That route cannot be advanced up until after the wrecks are cleared. Go off road and get stuck. The recovery vehicles have a problem getting to the wrecks due to the traffic jam and mud.

The mud makes the terrain more like a series of canyons rather than a flat plain. That mud makes infantry king on this field until the mud dries out.

Infantry can escape and not be pursued after firing an ATGM by tanks. Mud doesn't affect them as much. The Ukrainians have been handed a gobsmacking amount of ATGM. Sending helicopters after the infantry runs the risk of MANPADs...which the Ukrainians have a lot of, too.

When the mud dries, the Russians can get off the roads and cue the Doom music. Until then, the Ukrainians will have the advantage.

The Russians should know this. It boggles my mind why they did not wait until May or June to start the war.
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So nothing to do with mud at all.

If Russians are stupid enough to advance into territory without bombarding all life out of it with artillery and air strikes beforehand then that may happen.

ATGMs and MANPADs are great, but every soldier carrying one is one who's not carrying a rifle. Ukrainians seem to be increasingly armed with one ATGM and one rifle. While it may look cool I don't think it's a wise thing to do.
 
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Jingle Bells

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pmc said:
Su-34 haul 12 tons of fuel without external fuel tanks. Russian choppers are heaviest interms of fuel carrying. so you think they cannot afford a pod?. it is there doctorine not to use pods especially for this conflict. even the choppers that striking atgm they are practically withinin visual range.


Russia has EW choppers and Su-34. so i am not sure what extra you adding to it. the newest Mi-38 has alot increase engine power to deal with electronics.
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Okey, why are they getting shot down?
We all know that Russians are doing badly, or at least they are not doing well in this war.
You can argue for days on how the Russians are not doing as bad as media makes them look. But trust me, that's not going to convince anyone. This is because Russia's current performance is FAR from how we would have imagined they perform prior to the start of this war.

Sure, you can say they are NOT doing as badly as Western MSM paints them, but they are NOT doing well either, that's a fact.
 
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Jingle Bells

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tank3487 said:
Some peoples really underestimate Ukrainian air defense capability. It had 3 hundred launchers in around just for S300 at the start of conflict. Not to mention who knows how many Buk systems. And all this with live radar coverage by NATO AWACS that are permanently in the air at Ukrainian border. This is why Russian air, in areas where air defense are still sporadically active(they are in offline mode until target get into kill zone, so antiradar missiles do not help), are forced for low attitude operations.

In the East where Ukrainian air defence had ceased to exist Russia do use high attitude bomb runs.
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To be honest, I simply can't accept that the fact that more than a handful of Russian advanced flankers getting shot down in Ukraine, could be simply ignored as normal. How many F-15, F-16, F-18 were shot down, in all those wars the US engaged in, for decades?

Sure you can say that Ukraine is stronger that those third world countries the US fought. But is that how people have imagined Russia would perform? Prior to this war, which one of you would have predicted that Russia would perform as badly as this?
 
P

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Jingle Bells said:
Dude, please DON'T misunderstand what I am trying to say.
I am not saying that Russian MIC don't have the capability, or Russian equipment are inherently bad. NO, not the case!

What I am saying and raging against, is this idiotic attitude of prejudice rampant in these "fake-white-people" countries (countries that thinks that being white makes them identical to the rich and developed West). The Russian MIC has always been very good at EW. But the entire military doctrine of Russia forces is freaking weird. It's like they are trying to be different for the sake of being different.
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that i agree but that is there assessment how things should be conducted. they can leave Kiev alone so EU leaders can visit and announce big aid packages.
Jingle Bells said:
Su-34EW (equivalent of J-16D and EA18G) should have been prioritize over Su-30SM and Su-30M2.

In fact, what even is the point of putting Su-30SM and Su-30M2 into commission? Having even one of these two is already kinda redundant, now you have two!? What's the point?
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Those are built at different factories and Su-34 pilot training will be different as cockpits are not identical.
Su-30 are more balanced in swing role. Su-34 more is ground attack with more loitering time. i have read Su-34 pilots are trained for 10 or 16 hours? flights with in flight refuelling.
Jingle Bells said:
Why don't the VKS limit the variety of their platforms, and focus on putting money on force multiplier on these platforms. Like instead of purchasing Su30SM, why not just buy Russian made targeting pods and integrate those on all existing fighter-bomber platforms? So that they don't have to drop dumb bombs at dangerously low altitude. Instead of purchasing Su30M2, why not just put money on the Su-34EW?

This is the main problem with the VKS. Russia military seems to have idiotic drunkards staffing their high command who are making decisions on long term procurement. It's like they are purchasing platforms because the project leader of those platform bribed them with vodka.
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They already put force multiplier just look at A-50U/Tu-214R/Su-34M.

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meckhardt98

meckhardt98

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U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin speaking to Ukrainian soldiers conducting training on switchblade drones in Biloxi, Mississippi.

The Ukrainian government has been sending specialists abroad to learn about newly acquired systems for better integration within their forces; the same can be logically assumed for newly inducted British anti-ship missiles.
 

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GodRektsNoobs

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Richard Santos said:
a lot of comments here that favors russia in its relation with EU seems to make an implicit, perhaps even unconscious assumption. that is Russia is able to endure losses of wealthy and suppression in standard of living in order to achieve a long term strategic goal, where as the EU would not be able to do the same.

I think this implicit assumption is inculcated in states that mythologize its communist past because the communists justify much of their actions on this basis. But it should be kept in mind that the communists make this justification out of necessity, not out of fundamental truth. the necessity stems from the fact that much of its history, communist governments were no good at creating wealth and raising standard of living compared to developed nations of the west. A government with a weakness or flawed performance that seeks to hold on to power must by necessity portray its weaknesses and flawed performances as signs of strengths by some made up principle.

so I think it is by no means clear that the EU would be unwilling to endure the hardship needed to squeeze Russia over a prolonged period. The fact that they also do things to mitigate the hardship does not imply they are unwilling to endure enough hardship to achieve their goals.
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Let's be honest, EU has had it far too good for far too long. I mean, just look at the widespread protests in the wake of COVID and fuel/gas prices increase. Not to mention that Russia has "friends" that's willing to prop it up through had times, while EU has an "ally" that can't wait to suck it dry.
 
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anzha

Senior Member
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Abominable said:
So nothing to do with mud at all.
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Sure it does.

If the routes are limited, then maneuver cannot be done.

Abominable said:
If Russians are stupid enough to advance into territory without bombarding all life out of it with artillery and air strikes beforehand then that may happen.
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And what have the Russians done so far?

And I doubt the Russians can logistically afford a continous walking barrage from their staging point through their objectives. Their airstrikes in support of the advances have been very limited afaict for CAS to date.

I'd love to be proven wrong.
 
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