Ukrainian War Developments

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Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
manqiangrexue said:
Why let the West decide what's proportionate and follow that lead?
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Because anyone call declare anyone as a "CIA-puppet" without much evidence, and then invade them? You don't see the problem, it can be weaponized by both sides? You already have @PhSt saying Russian recognition of Ukraine in 1989 was an error because "Russia was a Pro-West Puppet regime, therefore illegitimate", so you can easily see how it can get twisted by nationalists.
manqiangrexue said:
Russia can decide and let the West respond proportionately, or not, depending on what they can do, because I can guarantee you that the US doesn't think about proportionates at all. The US always does whatever it wants to and can for its own benefit, with poor legal justification if it can find any or none at all if it cannot. Russia should be led by no one to determine the correct level of escalation in its own backyard; it should take the initiative with all its power.
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You can be anti-imperialism by US, but don't let your anti-imperialism blind you to be pro-Russian imperialism.
manqiangrexue said:
There is no right and wrong in this world anymore because the US-led West never abides by it. It's just them and us. And Russia is our brother; they are us. I support them in all their endeavours.
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Well, technically, there is a reason why the Chinese foreign ministry does not openly support Russian actions in Eastern Europe, and why China is acting neutral in UNSC. Neutrality is a good position to take, China can freely support Russia economically if it likes.
PhSt said:
And you are only supporting Westoid aggression and propaganda narrative. Well done
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And you are the only supporting Russian revanchism and irredentism and Russian propaganda narrative. Well done. This is sinodefence, not Russiandefenceforums.
PhSt said:
Phead128 said:
Did ROC/PRC formally recognize Tibet as sovereign/independent after Tibet declared independence post-Qing collapse? Heck no.
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Because China had been lucky enough that it didn't have a puppet regime installed in its leadership that would have implemented policies favored by your Westoid buddies.
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Ironic, back in the day, many CCP people called KMT-ROC as a "US-puppet" back in the day because they were corrupt and took tons of US money. But even KMT-ROC never recognized Tibetan independence, so your point is moot.

PhSt said:
Phead128 said:
Whereas Russia formally-recognized Ukraine as sovereign/independent after Ukraine declared independence post-Soviet collapse.
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Russia at that time is under a puppet regime just like the Jungwei government of China in the 1940s. Do commitments made by puppet regimes have any merit? No.
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Notice how anytimes anyone does something you disagree with, you call them a "Puppet regime"? That is low-effort propaganda my friend.

When Russia recognizes Ukraine as independent in 1989, they are a "Puppet regime" of West because they did something you disagree with? So you think Gorbachev or Yelstin was a CIA puppet, so his actions was illegitimate? How convenient. So anyone who does anything they disagree with is a "US-puppet". Got it.
PhSt said:
Phead128 said:
You Russophiliacs have only a modicum of understanding of history and will twist and warp any historical event to your favor.
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There is nothing wrong with supporting China's biggest and strongest ally.
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We have different interpretations. China can secretly support Russia, but it should never openly support Russia, and remain 'neutral' at UNSC and international forums. See 'Global Times' commentary on China's neutral position.
China has close strategic ties with Russia, but whether it is about the most recent situation or the Crimea issue in the past, China has always stayed neutral and urged relevant parties to handle the situation through talks, said Chinese experts, noting that this stance is more constructive and less harmful to the ongoing tension, as the crisis was caused by complicated reasons, including NATO's aggressive expansion that caused concrete security threats to Russia and other non-NATO countries in the region. So it would be unfair to merely blame and accuse one side.
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PhSt said:
Why are you supporting Westoid narratives against Russia?
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Why are you so triggered by legitimate criticisms of Russian actions in Ukraine?
Why are you so insecure about Sino-Russian alignment that even the most minor legitimate criticisms will disrupt the relationship?
Why are you so pro-Russia and anti-US that you can't even acknowledge the most basic legitimate criticism of Russian propaganda?

You make so many false equivalencies because you have nothing except emotion in your argument. It's devoid of logic, just emotion.
PhSt said:
Do I have to remind you about the West's past and current hostility towards China?
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So Russia can invade Ukraine because China hates US. Then why doesn't China openly support Russia at the UNSC or international forums? Oh yea, because neutrality is the correct policy, because Russia's actions are too brazen to support. It violates international law and China actually cares about "non-interference with internal affairs".
PhSt said:
I can claim the same about you, how you are willing to perform out of this world mental gymnastics to support Ukraine who by the way wouldn't think twice about throwing China under the bus to please your Westoid idols.
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You can claim anything you want, but I take extreme pleasure and enjoyment breaking down propaganda , whether Russian or American, so please continue. I genuinely and sincerely enjoy deconstructing propagandist arguments like yours.
 
A

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Philister said:
The podcast 双尾彗星 did is indeed interesting, now I think the invasion won’t be limited in the two new independent republics, maybe this time the wolf really comes and those little red riding hoods in Europe would soon be tasting poison apples they’ve been farming for 30years , good luck with that
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In any way, all these sanctions would have been used against Russia. The new pipeline was menaced a long time ago to be stopped by the US who want to sell gaz to EU. Russia probably shielded his asset in the past 8 years and just going for it.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
PhSt said:
Isn't it obvious from the beginning? He is a Westoidphiliac who wouldn't let an opportunity to pass without showing his admiration to his Westoid Idols who wants to dismember China.
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Right, saying: "Russia invasion of Ukraine is violation of international law" is equal to saying: "I love the West and US imperialism."

You Russian stooges are no better at propaganda than the American stooges that regularly use emotional arguments devoid of logic to shame others into "Either you are with us, or against us" rhetoric.

PhSt said:
For him, its perfectly excusable for the West to advance their imperial ambitions even at the expense of both China and Russia's interests.
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False equivalence. I am anti-WHITE imperialism (Russian or American), and I support China helping a weaker imperialist (Russia) against a stronger imperialist (USA), but I am free to make legitimate criticisms of Russian actions, because this is Sinodefenceforum, not Russiadefenceforum. If you want utmost loyalty to Russia, go to Russiandefenceforum to push your blatant propaganda.
PhSt said:
But when Russia acts to protect itself, Russia is EVIL. Yes, he prefers to take the side of China's enemies.
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False dilemma fallacy. It's not a false choice between choosing Russia or choosing West.

You can support Russia-China alignment while making legitimate criticisms of Russia's brazen actions. Not everything is black-white as you put it. If you are so insecure or easily triggered by basic criticisms, then perhaps the Sino-Russia alignment was built on a mound of sand to begin with.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Anlsvrthng said:
Ok, lets clarify, Korean Civil war, what is the justification of the USA to participate in the conflict ?
Why Ukriane different from the Korean war ?
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United States carved Korea into two separate states with Soviet Union (Two White imperialist powers) after 1945 Japanese defeat.

So yea, I hate White imperialism,, (Russia or American) and what US and Russia did in Korea was absolutely wrong. What else do you want me to say? That since US is bad, Russia can be bad, and China should openly support Russian badness? How about China stay neutral and not openly support Russia's brazen actions?

It's a new concept, but you can support Russia-China alignment but also make legitimate criticisms of Russia actions because you are anti-imperialist, not necessarily pro-US imperialist.
 
A

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
United States carved Korea into two separate states with Soviet Union (Two White imperialist powers) after 1945 Japanese defeat.

So yea, I hate White imperialism,, (Russia or American) and what US and Russia did in Korea was absolutely wrong. What else do you want me to say? That since US is bad, Russia can be bad, and China should openly support Russian badness? How about China stay neutral and not openly support Russia's brazen actions?

It's a new concept, but you can support Russia-China alignment but also make legitimate criticisms of Russia actions because you are anti-imperialist, not necessarily pro-US imperialist.
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I try to sound it differently :
Korea was partitioned into to country, south and north , north started a civil war to reunite the country, and the USA jumped into the face of the North, killing few million civilians in the process, and levelling all building in NK.

So, what is the justification of this ?

Why Russia actions supporting one side in a a civl war different from the Korean war ?
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
Because anyone call declare anyone as a "CIA-puppet" without much evidence, and then invade them? You don't see the problem, it can be weaponized by both sides? You already have @PhSt saying Russian recognition of Ukraine in 1989 was an error because "Russia was a Pro-West Puppet regime, therefore illegitimate", so you can easily see how it can get twisted by nationalists.

You can be anti-imperialism by US, but don't let your anti-imperialism blind you to be pro-Russian imperialism.

Well, technically, there is a reason why the Chinese foreign ministry does not openly support Russian actions in Eastern Europe, and why China is acting neutral in UNSC. Neutrality is a good position to take, China can freely support Russia economically if it likes.

And you are the only supporting Russian revanchism and irredentism and Russian propaganda narrative. Well done. This is sinodefence, not Russiandefenceforums.

Ironic, back in the day, many CCP people called KMT-ROC as a "US-puppet" back in the day because they were corrupt and took tons of US money. But even KMT-ROC never recognized Tibetan independence, so your point is moot.


Notice how anytimes anyone does something you disagree with, you call them a "Puppet regime"? That is low-effort propaganda my friend.

When Russia recognizes Ukraine as independent in 1989, they are a "Puppet regime" of West because they did something you disagree with? So you think Gorbachev or Yelstin was a CIA puppet, so his actions was illegitimate? How convenient. So anyone who does anything they disagree with is a "US-puppet". Got it.

We have different interpretations. China can secretly support Russia, but it should never openly support Russia, and remain 'neutral' at UNSC and international forums. See 'Global Times' commentary on China's neutral position.



Why are you so triggered by legitimate criticisms of Russian actions in Ukraine?
Why are you so insecure about Sino-Russian alignment that even the most minor legitimate criticisms will disrupt the relationship?
Why are you so pro-Russia and anti-US that you can't even acknowledge the most basic legitimate criticism of Russian propaganda?

You make so many false equivalencies because you have nothing except emotion in your argument. It's devoid of logic, just emotion.

So Russia can invade Ukraine because China hates US. Then why doesn't China openly support Russia at the UNSC or international forums? Oh yea, because neutrality is the correct policy, because Russia's actions are too brazen to support. It violates international law and China actually cares about "non-interference with internal affairs".

You can claim anything you want, but I take extreme pleasure and enjoyment breaking down propaganda , whether Russian or American, so please continue. I genuinely and sincerely enjoy deconstructing propagandist arguments like yours.
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The current stance of China of remaining neutral with respect to the current Russia VS NATO/US confrontation in Ukraine can be partly attributed to the fact that China isn't yet ready to fully commit and go all out in supporting Russia due to her economy, military, technology, education etc.. not fully optimize a.k.a. Insulated from external forces if it were to openly support Russia. China fighting at a disadvantage by choice is counter to it's strategic aims and objectives not to mention the political viability, stability of the CPC would be severely damaged if it were to fight and lose along with it all the consequences of failures. And one thing that's consistent in Chinese history is whenever a major upheaval happens or occurs they are almost always followed by the collapse of a dynasty.

I agree with most of the points you raise not for the same reasons you laid out but for the simple fact that China is simply biding it's time not to mention that its utmost strategic priority is Taiwan, everything else is of secondary importance.
 
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