Ukrainian War Developments

Anlsvrthng said:

I try to sound it differently :
Korea was partitioned into to country, south and north , north started a civil war to reunite the country, and the USA jumped into the face of the North, killing few million civilians in the process, and levelling all building in NK.

So, what is the justification of this ?

Why Russia actions supporting one side in a a civl war different from the Korean war ?

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There is zero justification for US intervention in Korean War and splitting Korea into two part.

What is your point? That Russia is not an imperialist because US is an imperialist?

OR, how about: "China is perfectly correct to support one weaker imperialist (Russia) against one stronger imperialist (USA)" ?? This is also correct strategy which I 100% support, because it acknowledges reality of Russia's brazen actions and acknowledges the realpolitks of Sino-Russian alignment. These are not mutually exclusive, China can support one imperialist against another. It's one reason why China is neutral at UNSC.

Bellum_Romanum said:

The current stance of China of remaining neutral with respect to the current Russia VS NATO/US confrontation in Ukraine can be partly attributed to the fact that China isn't yet ready to fully commit and go all out in supporting Russia due to her economy, military, technology, education etc.. not fully optimize a.k.a. Insulated from external forces if it were to openly support Russia. China fighting at a disadvantage by choice is counter to it's strategic aims and objectives not to mention the political viability, stability of the CPC would be severely damaged if it were to fight and lose along with it all the consequences of failures. And one thing that's consistent in Chinese history is whenever a major upheaval happens or occurs they are almost always followed by the collapse of a dynasty.

I agree with most of the points you raise not for the same reasons you laid out but for the simple fact that China is simply biding it's time not to mention that its utmost strategic priority is Taiwan, everything else is of secondary importance.

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I agree 1000%. Once Taiwan is reunified, then China can perhaps drop the "non-interference in internal affairs" principle, but no way to drop it now just to support Russian adventurism.

Because Napoleon and Hitler were just pussies, and not British!


According to the minister, the Scots Guards regiment “kicked the backside of Tsar Nicholas I in 1853 in Crimea,” and “can always do it again.”

“Tsar Nicholas I made the same mistake [President Vladimir] Putin did... he had no friends, no alliances,” he added.

Phead128 said:

There is zero justification for US intervention in Korean War and splitting Korea into two part.

What is your point?

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Claiming Russian actions illegal making all USA actions illegal.

Either You accept Russia action legal OR you accept the USA did countless illegal things.

Phead128 said:

And you are the only supporting Russian revanchism and irredentism and Russian propaganda narrative.

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So you admit to supporting Westoid narrative. Again, Russia is China's ally. nothing wrong with supporting a friend. If NATO wins over Russia, China is next in line. What do you get by bashing Russia and supporting Westoid narrative? You think the West cares if China takes a neutral stance in this conflict? No. The Westoids will not stop in their pursuit to dismember China. Too bad you couldn't accept that reality.

Phead128 said:

But even KMT-ROC never recognized Tibetan independence, so your point is moot.

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One Puppet is more compliant than the other. My point still stands. The Russian leadership at that time is a Westoid Puppet. This is not even a subject of debate. But I bet you will argue that the policies implemented by Russia at that time is for the benefit and interest of their country. lol. Again, you are parroting Westoid anti Russian narratives. Do you feel good for serving as an echo chamber for Westoid propaganda?

Phead128 said:

Notice how anytimes anyone does something you disagree with, you call them a "Puppet regime"?

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If I am a Russian national who cares for my country, of course I will disagree with my country's leadership giving away territories that are a core part of the country's history and culture. Its just normal for people to disagree with policies that puppet regimes impose which are detrimental to their country's interest. Are you arguing that the policies and decisions made by the Russian leadership before Putin is beneficial to the interests of Russia?

Phead128 said:

When Russia recognizes Ukraine as independent in 1989, they are a "Puppet regime" of West because they did something you disagree with?

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They are a puppet regime because they did exactly what the West wants. So Yes. they are service Westoid interests, not their own. What do you call them? Patriots?

Phead128 said:

Why are you so triggered by legitimate criticisms of Russian actions in Ukraine?

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Your tirade against Russia is full of subjective one sided arguments and at the same time serves the Westoid narrative against Russia. This stems from your obvious hatred towards Russia and you are willing to degrade yourself into a useful tool for the Westoids by regurgitating their same propaganda.

Phead128 said:

You make so many false equivalencies because you have nothing except emotion in your argument. It's devoid of logic, just emotion.

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You are talking about yourself. Your hatred towards Russia shows you are willing to support Westoid aggression even if it is to the detriment of China's interests.

Phead128 said:

So Russia can invade Ukraine because China hates US. Then why doesn't China openly support Russia at the UNSC or international forums? Oh yea, because neutrality is the correct policy, because Russia's actions are too brazen to support.

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So you base your behavior to the argument that China doesn't openly support Russia, fair enough. You say Neutrality is the correct policy, nothing wrong with that. But is your rabid show of hostility towards Russia qualify as neutral behavior to you? Is your support for Westoid narrative against Russia not taking sides? It seems you do not live by your stated beliefs.

Phead128 said:

You can claim anything you want, but I take extreme pleasure and enjoyment breaking down propaganda

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Perhaps you mean you enjoy parroting Westoid propaganda and thus advancing Westpod interests.

Phead128 said:

You Russian stooges are no better at propaganda than the American stooges

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Again, what is wrong with supporting a Chinese ally like Russia? A Russian victory in Eastern Europe will keep the Westoids preoccupied while China continues to expand its influence and safeguard its interests. You on the other hand want to slap Russia in the face to defend Ukraine who just double crossed China in order to please its Westoid masters.

Phead128 said:

but it doesn't stop me from pointing out blatant Russian proaganda because I am not obligated to show loyalty to Russia, you guys aren't even formal treaty allies

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Im not Russian, your hostility to Russia is serving Westpoid propaganda. Do you like serving as the mouthpiece for Westoids who wants to dismember China?

Phead128 said:

False dilemma fallacy. It's not a false choice between choosing Russia or choosing West.

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You think Westoids will thank China for being aggressive towards Russia? Yeah, the West will show their thanks to China by overthrowing its government and dismembering China into tiny stateless.

Phead128 said:

United States carved Korea into two separate states with Soviet Union (Two White imperialist powers) after 1945 Japanese defeat.

So yea, I hate White imperialism,, (Russia or American) and what US and Russia did in Korea was absolutely wrong. What else do you want me to say? That since US is bad, Russia can be bad, and China should openly support Russian badness? How about China stay neutral and not openly support Russia's brazen actions?

It's a new concept, but you can support Russia-China alignment but also make legitimate criticisms of Russia actions because you are anti-imperialist, not necessarily pro-US imperialist.

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To be honest , China wanted a separated Korea too , and we tried the very method on Vietnam , but as what we know now, north Vietnamese were much better than we thought they were

Phead128 said:

Because anyone call declare anyone as a "CIA-puppet" without much evidence, and then invade them? You don't see the problem, it can be weaponized by both sides? You already have @PhSt saying Russian recognition of Ukraine in 1989 was an error because "Russia was a Pro-West Puppet regime, therefore illegitimate", so you can easily see how it can get twisted by nationalists.

You can be anti-imperialism by US, but don't let your anti-imperialism blind you to be pro-Russian imperialism.

Well, technically, there is a reason why the Chinese foreign ministry does not openly support Russian actions in Eastern Europe, and why China is acting neutral in UNSC. Neutrality is a good position to take, China can freely support Russia economically if it likes.

And you are the only supporting Russian revanchism and irredentism and Russian propaganda narrative. Well done. This is sinodefence, not Russiandefenceforums.

Ironic, back in the day, many CCP people called KMT-ROC as a "US-puppet" back in the day because they were corrupt and took tons of US money. But even KMT-ROC never recognized Tibetan independence, so your point is moot.


Notice how anytimes anyone does something you disagree with, you call them a "Puppet regime"? That is low-effort propaganda my friend.

When Russia recognizes Ukraine as independent in 1989, they are a "Puppet regime" of West because they did something you disagree with? So you think Gorbachev or Yelstin was a CIA puppet, so his actions was illegitimate? How convenient. So anyone who does anything they disagree with is a "US-puppet". Got it.

We have different interpretations. China can secretly support Russia, but it should never openly support Russia, and remain 'neutral' at UNSC and international forums. See 'Global Times' commentary on China's neutral position.



Why are you so triggered by legitimate criticisms of Russian actions in Ukraine?
Why are you so insecure about Sino-Russian alignment that even the most minor legitimate criticisms will disrupt the relationship?
Why are you so pro-Russia and anti-US that you can't even acknowledge the most basic legitimate criticism of Russian propaganda?

You make so many false equivalencies because you have nothing except emotion in your argument. It's devoid of logic, just emotion.

So Russia can invade Ukraine because China hates US. Then why doesn't China openly support Russia at the UNSC or international forums? Oh yea, because neutrality is the correct policy, because Russia's actions are too brazen to support. It violates international law and China actually cares about "non-interference with internal affairs".

You can claim anything you want, but I take extreme pleasure and enjoyment breaking down propaganda , whether Russian or American, so please continue. I genuinely and sincerely enjoy deconstructing propagandist arguments like yours.

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You're still focused on the wrong thing. You're focused on morals and what's right and wrong in an objective sense, but your enemy isn't. China's enemies aren't. China's and Russia's enemies are focused on making up justifications and slander to invigorate their own populations to support thier national agenda no matter what China/Russia does. If China planted trees, it's killing a desert. If China cured cancer, it's committing genocide against innocent cancer cells, which are just life like everything else. If China stopped COVID, it's a human rights violation; if China let COVID spread, it's incompetence. See a building in Xinjiang? Let's just say that's a forced labor camp and get the same person to say she was sterilized in one article and forced to have Han babies in another. And you're still here talking about what's right or wrong. These don't exist. What benefits China/Russia is right. What benefits the West is wrong. It can be the same action, but it's right when we do it, wrong when they do it; fight fire with fire. That's all we should be concerned about. Our side must win against their side, no matter what. Whatever they do is wrong and even if we do something clearly wrong, it's right because we were forced to do it to combat their greater evil. That's all there is to it.

British Defence Secretary speaks:

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Maikeru said:

"Tsar Nicholas I made the same mistake Putin did... he had no friends, no alliances," he adds.

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For a defense secretary he doesn't seem to be very bright, isn't he. Does he really think that China doesn't exist in Planet Earth.

What's eating the West, inside out, is that China can just bankroll Russia while Putin wrecks havoc in Europe.
I said it during the Trump era, the West has made an unimaginable error in making China its enemy.

The consequences of this ill-fated decision will haunt it for decades

Bob Smith said:

What's wrong with staying neutral in this situation? Does Russia support China in its SCS claims?

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Staying neutral is not the same than not commenting...

ZeEa5KPul said:

@Phead128 Why should we care about international law? Does international law protect China or do DF-41s protect China?

The Ukrainian foreign minister is currently whining to the UN General Assembly, pathetically begging others to fight his fight for him. You would undoubtedly find that riveting viewing.

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Exactly, when the US keeps violating these so-called international "laws" with impunity, it becomes farcical to call them laws anymore.

This fully describes why Russia acts like this. The West should read more of Sun Tzu to learn what to avoid to do when pressuring someone