Yeah, as far as I'm aware, the 4th guards tank division and the 1st guards tank army did take fairly heavy losses in Sumy oblast. They were repulsed at Myrhorod and then counterattacked and pushed out of Trostianets, and were forced to retreat across the border. Oryx visually confirmed 53 T-80U losses, which only the 4th guards use out of both Ukraine and Russia, of which the division has approximately 188 of. Russia has also lost 31 T-80BVs and T-80BVMs which the division also uses but I'm not certain if that's exclusive to them. Whatever the case, the commander of the 1st guards tank army was relieved of command, and the commander of one of the division's regiments allegedly killed himself after discovering that only one in 10 of its tanks in deep storage were usable.
Ukrainian War Developments
- Thread starter james smith esq
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The Ukrainians themselves have said there were no engagements during the Russian withdrawal. I don't know where these stories of "heavy losses" come from. The Russians have left behind equipment that they destroyed, but that's it.
That's not Kiev.
The OP also talked about the 1st guards tank army, so I chipped in.
Seriously, they need to start hitting the infrastructure of any place they don't intend to occupy with carpet bombing, air dispensed mines (for area targets) and missiles (for point targets).
These include:
1. cities west of the Dnieper
2. bridges across the Dnieper except the ones near Kherson
3. all Ukrainian oil refineries, semiconductor fabs (if any), bridges west of the Dnieper, tunnel entrances, etc.
4. farmland that is used to export grain to adversary countries (legal per US doctrine re: Agent Orange)
5. all fossil fuel power plants not connected with the eastern or southern Ukrainian grids
Second, shut off the gas pipelines crossing Ukraine first unless the end buyers pay in rubles, and then provide gas supply data to the end users and immediately publicize if Ukraine siphons gas.
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Sources? I know that the Russian encirclement was broken over there, but I didn't see anything about a total rout like that.
can you source this statement? need it for reference.
First of all, you apparently like to conflate being German or Austrian with being a Nazi.
I use the term 'Nazi' to refer only to members of the NSDAP. Skorzeny was a member; most Germans were not.
The term 'pro-Nazi' may be used to refer to people (not only Germans) who supported the NSDAP.
Some Americans conflate being Chinese with being a CCP member or supporter and therefore believe that all
Chinese should be presumed to be guilty--unless proven innocent beyond doubt--of cheating, spying, or worse.
Should you not approve of this American attitude toward all ethnic Chinese?
Otto Skorzeny was not on trial for any alleged crimes that he might have committed in the USSR.
(I know of no specific evidence that Skorzeny personally murdered any Jewish civilians.)
You apparently believe that it's right to condemn and punish people for alleged crimes without being tried for them.
Do you approve of the USA's long record of imprisoning and torturing people without trial in Guantanamo?
Moreover, do you approve of China's collective punishment of many Uyghurs because a few have been terrorists?
Not every Nazi (NSDAP member) was morally equivalent. Edith Hahn Beer (an Austrian Jew from Vienna) wrote that
her life was saved (in part) by a NSDAP official who gave her invaluable secret information about how to create a
false identity and conceal herself from the Nazis. That official (who never gave his name to her) evidently was
secretly helping some Jews hide or escape. His fate is unknown. Later, she married a NSDAP member, who
accepted her even after she revealed that she's a Jew. He forged a document to help her former Jewish boyfriend.
Note your extreme dishonesty in setting up the absurd strawman that I regard the Waffen-SS as innocent of war crimes.
Note also your hypocrisy in hastening to condemn all Germans (whom you call Nazis) as, in effect, a priori guilty of war
crimes while, if I recall correctly, apparently doing your utmost to deny or excuse Russian responsibility for war crimes.
Don’t think there is any official numbers for either side.
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