Ukrainian War Developments

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Richard Santos

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What are you some kind of ghoul?! Who would be able and willing to take such photos in an area occupied by the perpetrators?
Some one who cares what really happened, and cares if the accusation is full of shit or not?

I thought the alledged perpetrators are gone, and heroic, righteous, truth seeking uncoverers of the alleged atrocity are now in charge?

You know, forensic investigators?


Or does that frighten the gleefully enthused consumer of the accusation with worrying possibility of bitter disappointment?
 
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Maikeru

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Some one who cares what really happened, and cares if the accusation is full of shit or not?

I thought the alledged perpetrators are gone, and heroic, righteous, truth seeking uncoverers of the alleged atrocity are now in charge?

You know, forensic investigators?


Or does that frighten the gleefully enthused consumer of the accusation with worrying possibility of bitter disappointment?
Right, someone who risks their life to photograph dead bodies at periodic intervals in a place occupied by the killers for the purpose of satisfying the curiosity of people like you, who would never be convinced even if a bunch of Russian soldiers said straight out they did it and showed videos of themselves doing it?

I don't believe for a second that you are interested in "the truth". You ask for absurdly high standards of evidence of Russian atrocities but I expect you take Russian claims of Ukrainian atrocities at face value, no questions asked.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
"Being "Ukrainian" is like those other regional identities and is not a national identity."

Who are you to say that you know more than Ukrainians do about what it means to be Ukrainian?
You do know that Ukrainian is a language distinct from Russian, right?
As if it would be this simple.
Much (if not the majority) of fighting Ukrainian army speak russian in combat, at home, and so on. They know Ukrainian - because it is, well, strongly promoted. Strongly enough to spark a civil war.
Much of it (and significant part of the whole population) has relatives in Russia outright, and vice versa. Some of the cities where the fighting is going right now don't speak Ukrainian in daily life, at all. Some(if not most) of them are actually fiercely pro-Ukrainian, in spite of being essentially discriminated against, by this metric at least.

So, tread carefully here. yes, Ukrainian identity is a fact. No, it doesn't come from 'Ukrainian language being distinct from Russian'.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
As if it would be this simple.
Much (if not the majority) of fighting Ukrainian army speak russian in combat, at home, and so on. They know Ukrainian - because it is, well, strongly promoted. Strongly enough to spark a civil war.
Much of it (and significant part of the whole population) has relatives in Russia outright, and vice versa. Some of the cities where the fighting is going right now don't speak Ukrainian in daily life, at all. Some(if not most) of them are actually fiercely pro-Ukrainian, in spite of being essentially discriminated against, by this metric at least.

So, tread carefully here. yes, Ukrainian identity is a fact. No, it doesn't come from 'Ukrainian language being distinct from Russian'.
More inadequate reading comprehension.

First of all, I was disputing someone who claimed that Ukrainians rightly have no distinct national identity from Russians.
He apparently believes that Ukrainians are merely Russians at heart in different regional dress.
As far as I can infer, he apparently believes that Ukrainian nationalists have been brainwashed by Western propaganda
to believe that they are different from Russians when, in reality, they are the same people as Russians.
This attitude is extremely condescending.

I never claimed that the *only* reason why Ukrainians are different from Russians is their languages.
Please don't put words into my mouth to attack as your strawman.

Many, if not most, Ukrainians can understand Russian, even if they choose not to speak it unless compelled.
So what? Austrians and Prussians both speak German, yet Austria and Prussia fought many wars against each other.

Ukrainians have a national identity that's distinct from Russians. That does not necessarily mean that Ukrainians
and Russians must be extremely different in every possible way.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
.
As far as I can infer, he apparently believes that Ukrainian nationalists have been brainwashed by Western propaganda
More like most of eastern nationalism is a rather recent invention, usually promoted by other european powers to split and destabilize enemies and rivals since the 18th Century.


The US just decided to use less subtle methods and just wiped out whatever crossed it's path
 

Abominable

Major
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Southfront putting out a theory that there are Turkish soldiers trapped in Mariupol. Erdogan had been one of the people who were being vocal about a humanitarian corridor and I do recall some Turkish civilians who had taken refuge in a Mosque that were evacuated.

Apparently there will be a new amnesty corridor for Ukrainian fighters in Mariupol, with safety guaranteed by the Turks.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
More inadequate reading comprehension.

First of all, I was disputing someone who claimed that Ukrainians rightly have no distinct national identity from Russians.
He apparently believes that Ukrainians are merely Russians at heart in different regional dress.
As far as I can infer, he apparently believes that Ukrainian nationalists have been brainwashed by Western propaganda
to believe that they are different from Russians when, in reality, they are the same people as Russians.
This attitude is extremely condescending.

I never claimed that the *only* reason why Ukrainians are different from Russians is their languages.
Please don't put words into my mouth to attack as your strawman.

Many, if not most, Ukrainians can understand Russian, even if they choose not to speak it unless compelled.
So what? Austrians and Prussians both speak German, yet Austria and Prussia fought many wars against each other.

Ukrainians have a national identity that's distinct from Russians. That does not necessarily mean that Ukrainians
and Russians must be extremely different in every possible way.
Is there anyone you disagree with that you don't find condescending?
 
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