Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

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taxiya said:
NS2 is not only to serve Germany but part of EU around Germany. If this part of EU has problem to pay their electricity bill for basic heating and cocking let alone factories to make some money, how are they going to pay for Chinese import? Wishing to crash competitors in this manner is like "killing the hen for the egg".

Also a down-falling Germany will only benefit the American puppets in Europe, such as UK. It is the worst thing for China. Basically the US and UK etc. are actively pursuit the fall of any big powers who want to be independent or neutral, like Germany and France etc.
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This is the only sensible criticism of Russia's actions from China's perspective. A weakened European economy will hurt China to some extent, as will the higher oil and gas prices.

However, Europe's undoing will be the result of it's failure to develop an independent foreign policy. They could have used the last 8 years to force Ukraine to deal with the separatist issue politically. If the EU had put sanctions on Ukraine for restrictions on native Russian speakers, prosecution of war criminals and dissolution of the neo-nazi Azov branch of the Ukrainian military this conflict would have been over.

Instead they allowed their policy to be dictated by Americans, and actually encouraged Ukrainian belligerence by dangling the carrot of EU membership in front of them.

The same European apparatus will be used against China. Hopefully after this episode the Europeans will learn that following American policy blindly comes at a cost. So in the long term, a weak Europe is good for China.
 
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taxiya

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Regarding the "advice to China to keep caution towards Russia".

To begin with, it is a vast under-estimation of the wisdom of both China and Russia to the point of being insulating of people's intelligence. Russia has some hundreds of years history, China has thousands, both are long enough to known the "advice".

A not exact but close analog is marriage. Two people who both have had prior failed marriages got married one day. On the day of wedding party, a person comes to the bride or groom and says "I love you, as a friend I warn you to prepare for a divorce in the near future because I know the past of your partner." What would you think of this person? Does he/she love you? Does he/she think that you are stupid? Does he/she have some hidden agenda?

Like a marriage, no relationship is guaranteed a success. But working on its failure on day one will guarantee the failure. It is a self proven prophecy. One get an enemy if one treat the other as a potential enemy, that is exactly what US is doing to China. Why should China be doing this? Why should Russia be doing this? Any grown up person should know this.

Some may argue that Russia and China's relationship is only because of pressure from US, it is a business relationship, therefor the advice. But future of relationship is determined by what people do from today, not the past. Why would there necessarily be a failure if both work hard for a success? At least the greater effort from both side, the higher chance of success. Preparing for divorce on day one will guarantee a failure.

So the question is, what is this "advice" all about?
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Abominable said:
This is the only sensible criticism of Russia's actions from China's perspective. A weakened European economy will hurt China to some extent, as will the higher oil and gas prices.

However, Europe's undoing will be the result of it's failure to develop an independent foreign policy. They could have used the last 8 years to force Ukraine to deal with the separatist issue politically. If the EU had put sanctions on Ukraine for restrictions on native Russian speakers, prosecution of war criminals and dissolution of the neo-nazi Azov branch of the Ukrainian military this conflict would have been over.

Instead they allowed their policy to be dictated by Americans, and actually encouraged Ukrainian belligerence by dangling the carrot of EU membership in front of them.

The same European apparatus will be used against China. Hopefully after this episode the Europeans will learn that following American policy blindly comes at a cost. So in the long term, a weak Europe is good for China.
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I was not making excuses for Europe's failure of standing up for themselves. I was rejecting the notion that China should celebrate down-fall of China's market.
 
james smith esq

james smith esq

Senior Member
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taxiya said:
Regarding the "advice to China to keep caution towards Russia".

To begin with, it is a vast under-estimation of the wisdom of both China and Russia to the point of being insulating of people's intelligence. Russia has some hundreds of years history, China has thousands, both are long enough to known the "advice".

A not exact but close analog is marriage. Two people who both have had prior failed marriages got married one day. On the day of wedding party, a person comes to the bride or groom and says "I love you, as a friend I warn you to prepare for a divorce in the near future because I know the past of your partner." What would you think of this person? Does he/she loves you? Does he/she think that you are stupid? Does he/she have some hidden agenda?

Like a marriage, no relationship is guaranteed a success. But working on its failure on day one will guarantee the failure. It is a self proven prophecy. One get an enemy if one treat the other as a potential enemy, that is exactly what US is doing to China. Why should China be doing this? Why should Russia be doing this? Any grown up person should know this.

Some may argue that Russia and China's relationship is only because of pressure from US, it is a business relationship, therefor the advice. But future of relationship is determined by what people do from today, not the past. Why would there necessarily a failure if both work hard for a success? At least the greater effort from both side, the higher chance of success. Preparing for divorce on day one will guarantee a failure.

So the question is, what is it all about this "advice"?
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Maybe it’s not just Putin that’s the junky grabbing at straws, huh?
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
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james smith esq said:
Maybe it’s not just Putin that’s the junky grabbing at straws, huh?
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Please elaborate your point.

From what I can gather from your sentence, you regard Putin as junky because he once tried to get Russia into NATO, isn't it? For that, will you call Mao Zedong and Richard Nixon junkies because they desperately hang up together to fight USSR?
 
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