Ukrainian War Developments

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enroger

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Another salient summary from the Durant: The west is pushing the narrative the Russia has scaled back (or some may even call it a defeat) their war goal to securing Donbass. However it is likely this was Russian goal from the start, their encirclement of major Ukrainian cities is simply to pin down Ukrainian troops to prevent them from reinforcing the encircled Ukrainian forces in the east which Russia intends to destroy.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I've said it before it would be insane to try to take the entire Ukraine. Russia simply does not have the manpower to do so, not to mention the quagmire of resistance it would become.
 
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Sardaukar20

Captain
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I don't think Ukraine is trying to develop a WMDs like Nuclear or Biological weapons that has been constantly push by Pro-Russian sources in various media

I find it pretty odd...
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Zelensky said, "other states will also conclude that they need nuclear weapons." "We need a reform of the security system so that nuclear status does not serve as a license for any injustice," he said.

What about those US biolabs in Ukraine? Amanda Nuland admitted that they contained 'dangerous stuff' that she fears Russia might capture and use.

But maybe you're right. The real Ukraine doesn't want WMDs. But the US and its fascist pets running Ukraine wants them.
 

ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
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ISW had my respect in the first few days of the war, but it has recently degenerated completely into a mouthpiece of the Ukrainian military. Their maps in the south and east were ridiculously wrong for weeks. And every other sentence in their daily updates now begins with "the Ukrainian General Staff reports." There's no serious effort to question or challenge what's being reported by the Ukrainians, much of which is highly amplified propaganda designed to keep Western support and arms shipments flowing.
I have to agree somewhat. Not nessesarily mouthpiecing but definitely become too lax in their source vetting.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member

Another salient summary from the Durant: The west is pushing the narrative the Russia has scaled back (or some may even call it a defeat) their war goal to securing Donbass. However it is likely this was Russian goal from the start, their encirclement of major Ukrainian cities is simply to pin down Ukrainian troops to prevent them from reinforcing the encircled Ukrainian forces in the east which Russia intends to destroy.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I've said it before it would be insane to try to take the entire Ukraine. Russia simple does not have the manpower to do so, not to mention the quagmire of resistance it would become.
Russia has the resources to take and hold the entire Donbass. Mariupol is in Donetsk, for example. Mariupol actually declared independence along with the rest of Donetsk back in 2014 but due to it being a low intensity hybrid conflict, was lost to Ukraine again after 1 APC was shot.

Taking all of Donbass would mean Russia gains +1 million in Lugansk and +2 million in Donetsk, 60% of whom are Russian speakers.

I think that after the Ukrainian Army in the east surrenders, they will consolidate the southern parts of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts to gain a continuous corridor from Crimea to Donbass. This will have made the invasion worth: cuts Ukraine off from Sea of Azov and makes it an internal Russian lake, gains +10 million mostly Russian speakers, and consolidates control of Crimea.

They have a few objectives left to fully consolidate, these are the absolute minimums:

1. Southeast Axis (Donbass/Mariupol): must conquer north to Samara River at the confluence of Dniepropetrosk to gain a natural border. This means conquering cities of Zaporizhzhia and Dniepropetrosk. They also need to conquer westward to the entire eastern bank of the Donets River. This would only be maneuver warfare.

2. Northeast Axis (Chernihiv): must conquer south to the Desna and Seym Rivers to gain a natural border. No new urban conquests required. Maneuver only.

3. Southwest Axis (Kherson): must hold permanently to control the Dnieper crossing. Defensive action only.

4. Northwest Axis (Kiev): must hold as long as possible and inflict maximum damage, not get routed or encircled.

As for how bad this is for Ukraine? It is crippling. Despite keeping Kiev, Kharkiv and Lviv, they're going to get cut from the Sea of Azov, Russia would be right up at natural borders, they won't even control the Dnieper (as Russia will have control at key points on the east bank) and they'd have lost ~20% of area and population both.
 
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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Russia has the resources to take and hold the entire Donbass. Mariupol is in Donetsk, for example. Mariupol actually declared independence along with the rest of Donetsk back in 2014 but due to it being a low intensity hybrid conflict, was lost to Ukraine again after 1 APC was shot.

Taking all of Donbass would mean Russia gains +1 million in Lugansk and +2 million in Donetsk, 60% of whom are Russian speakers.

I think that after the Ukrainian Army in the east surrenders, they will consolidate the southern parts of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts to gain a continuous corridor from Crimea to Donbass. This will have made the invasion worth: cuts Ukraine off from Sea of Azov and makes it an internal Russian lake, gains +10 million mostly Russian speakers, and consolidates control of Crimea.

They have a few objectives left to fully consolidate, these are the absolute minimums:

1. Southeast Axis (Donbass/Mariupol): must conquer north to Samara River at the confluence of Dniepropetrosk to gain a natural border. This means conquering cities of Zaporizhzhia and Dniepropetrosk. They also need to conquer westward to the entire eastern bank of the Donets River. This would only be maneuver warfare.

2. Northeast Axis (Chernihiv): must conquer south to the Desna and Seym Rivers to gain a natural border. No new urban conquests required. Maneuver only.

3. Southwest Axis (Kherson): must hold permanently to control the Dnieper crossing. Defensive action only.

4. Northwest Axis (Kiev): must hold as long as possible and inflict maximum damage, not get routed or encircled.

As for how bad this is for Ukraine? It is crippling. Despite keeping Kiev, Kharkiv and Lviv, they're going to get cut from the Sea of Azov, Russia would be right up at natural borders, they won't even control the Dnieper (as Russia will have control at key points on the east bank) and they'd have lost ~20% of area and population both.

Ukraine never had real access to the Sea of Azov

what Russia needs to do is cut off Black Sea

they can’t do that unless they take Odessa

and it seems that won’t happen
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ukraine never had real access to the Sea of Azov

what Russia needs to do is cut off Black Sea

they can’t do that unless they take Odessa

and it seems that won’t happen
Odessa is too hard. There's no natural boundaries to its north/west and there's 3 major roads M05, M15 and M16 leading from either western Ukraine or NATO countries.

Cutting from the Black Sea is not possible now, so Russia must focus on doing maximum damage and annexing maximum land up to defensible borders.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
This would explain why we don't see that much super duper Bayraktar footage anymore.

View attachment 85967
I doubt 35 TB2 have been shot down, where's the evidence of it? The absence of TB-2 footage is very odd though.

All drones regardless of type have very high failure rates compared to piloted aircraft. The Russians are reporting loads of downed drones, but they are all Ukrainian/ex soviet ones, or commercial ones. Look at TB-2 deployment anywhere else, they had lots more being shot down or just malfunctioning. Are we to believe the TB-2 has suddenly become stealth capable and ultra reliable? I doubt it.

More likely Turkey is limiting the use of TB-2 as they don't want to piss off Russia.
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
I doubt 35 TB2 have been shot down, where's the evidence of it? The absence of TB-2 footage is very odd though.

All drones regardless of type have very high failure rates compared to piloted aircraft. The Russians are reporting loads of downed drones, but they are all Ukrainian/ex soviet ones, or commercial ones. Look at TB-2 deployment anywhere else, they had lots more being shot down or just malfunctioning. Are we to believe the TB-2 has suddenly become stealth capable and ultra reliable? I doubt it.

More likely Turkey is limiting the use of TB-2 as they don't want to piss off Russia.

It really shouldn't be that hard to deal with TB-2, it is operating on direct line of sight communication. Russian should be able to pin down their command center. Instead of thinking how many TB-2 has been shot down, one should really think about how many command posts has been bombed
 

Strangelove

Colonel
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What about those US biolabs in Ukraine? Amanda Nuland admitted that they contained 'dangerous stuff' that she fears Russia might capture and use.

But maybe you're right. The real Ukraine doesn't want WMDs. But the US and its fascist pets running Ukraine wants them.

Those labs are in Ukraine as they're squarely aimed at Russia, from some years ago -

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