Ukrainian War Developments

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sferrin

Junior Member
Registered Member
So, if we nuke Sevastopol, and the Russians retaliate, and the likelihood of their retaliation is very high, will you offer your own residence as ground zero for their retaliation?
Will you offer yours for Putin to perform his, "escalate to deescalate"? No? I didn't think so.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Will you offer yours for Putin to perform his, "escalate to deescalate"? No? I didn't think so.
Putin escalated against Ukraine. I had not advocated any position that cause Putin to retaliate against my country. I suppose being an American, I do bear responsibility for the action of my country, but I never agree that NATO expansion was a good idea and I have very good company. So I don't see why I should offer my house for Putin to bomb. You are the one that wanted to start a nuclear war with a nuclear power with thousands of nukes. Millions could die if we follow your advice. Yet you are not willing to even put your property at risk, let alone the lives of your family. But you are OK if others will perish due to your advocacy. Just trying to point out the hypocrisy here.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I disagree. Urban fighting is difficult against a well equipped and determined enemy, even for the side that has much greater firepower. The Chechen Wars and Fallujah have proven that in recent decades. In the cases of Grozny and Fallujah, yes, the attackers did eventually win, but it was definitely not a cakewalk and it necessitated essentially destroying those cities.
Grozny 2 10:1 K/D, Fallujah 2 100-200:1 K/D. While I wouldn't call any battle a cakewalk, those are as close as you can get to it. The cities will be destroyed though.

From how they fought in Syria, city battles will be the last resort. We're more likely to see cities cut off, military targets engaged with stand off munitions & targeted artillery fire, and humanitarian corridors for civilians and even soldiers who want to leave. They have more than enough soldiers for that. Levelling the city and engaging in urban warfare will be the final option.
 

sferrin

Junior Member
Registered Member
The last time *on video* was in 2019.
last time in practice...well, I frankly doubt area targets disappeared due to covid-19.
Let's see that. B-52s carpet bombing a wartime target in 2019. (Dropping old ordinance on a training location doesn't count.)
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
The 3:1 manpower ratio is a myth. Look at the battle for Berlin. Stalin had inferior numbers, used brute force to take it as quickly as possible, and the Germans still lost more.

Another myth is the fact that urban warfare is harder than open warfare. It's usually a last resort for defenders. Most city battles have ended up much worse for the defenders, even in battles they "won", e.g. the first battles of Grozny & Fallujah. It becomes harder to operate artillery, to move around, and very difficult to concentrate forces. While the attacker can pick the time and area of attack. That's assuming they actually bother with urban fighting. They can just sit outside and shell the place to the ground (as what seems to have happened in Mariupol).

If your game plan is to fight in cities you've already lost the war.
"The 3:1 manpower ratio is a myth. Look at the battle for Berlin. Stalin had inferior numbers,
used brute force to take it as quickly as possible, and the Germans still lost more."

It's absurd to claim that the attacking RKKA was outnumbered by the German defenders in the Battle of Berlin in 1945.
Are you counting every civilian in Berlin (then 'a city of women', to quote Cornelius Ryan) as a combatant?

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In reality, the RKKA enjoyed overwhelming advantages in numbers of trained soldiers, firepower, and material support.
Nonetheless, Heinrici gave Zhukov a bloody nose during the first few days of the Battle of the Seelow Heights.
The defense fell apart when the Germans, unable to replace their losses, began to run out of ammunition.

"The
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, fought over four days from 16 until 19 April, was one of the last
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of World War II:
almost one million Red Army soldiers and more than 20,000 tanks and artillery pieces were deployed to break through the "Gates to
Berlin", which were defended by about 100,000 German soldiers and 1,200 tanks and guns.
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The Soviet forces led by Zhukov
broke through the defensive positions, having suffered about 30,000 dead,
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while 12,000 German personnel were killed.
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"
--Wikipedia
 
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