Ukrainian War Developments

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Kich

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Do you have the video?
Yes I do my good man.

Okay 1st is video of the tractor. Notice the Z on it. It's why the Ukrainians are throwing rocks at it.
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2nd is the video of possibly other Ukrainians chasing the tractor and expertly throwing the Molotov at it. Good thing their actions didn't fire back at them :p. My puns need work, but notice the Z on the tractor
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3rd is another angle of the molotov incident.
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Pictures of the Famous Tractor that started all this trend. It belonged to the Russians.
 

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Black Shark

Junior Member
I see a lot of Americans saying this, but I've not seen a single Russian or western analysis that made that claim before the war. Care to back that up?
Anyone who understands russian language or observes the situation through the lense of the eastern side understands that the rules of engagement reflect long-term politics and not western style liberation and democratization. The difference is they still have to live next to Ukraine after the war unlike the US who just liberates every country they invade where the Population decreases roughly by 5%.
 

pmc

Major
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Ukraine doesn't even have to "win". They just need to drag it out long enough that Russia decides to pack it in. See Afghanistan and the many countries that have stepped up to the plate there only to go home.
if Russia that occupied the 30% is functioning well and integrated with Crimea. than this stalemate will be at acceptable. Ukraine have lost control majority of Nuclear power, coal/steel etc and no export route left to the sea.
so far there is no evidence that Ukraine can launched head on offense or behind the lines insurgency.
It is same situation for the whole of East EU. Will German firms prefers Turkey now more with multi-vector export routes or East EU which will be practically blocked from Eastern inputs and exports.

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Richard Santos

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The Polish bad history with Russia / USSR runs much further back than that though.

It has been partitioned three times and annexed two times (1795-1918 & 1939-1945) and was finally relocated with a substantial part of current Poland in past German territory.
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Add some lovely stuff like this:
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yes, poland had a long bad experiences with both the russia and germany. however, there is a difference between hating a polity for its history of subjugation of one’s homeland, and hating a people because having lived together as neighbors for generations, they turn on you and drive you out of your home or killed your family.

that difference is accentuated if such things happened repeatedly over several hundred years across a wide range of communities, as compare to it having happen once during a particularly vicious war.

one might say the hostility between poland and russia or germany is at its core primarily nationalistic antagonist, those between poland and ukraine primarily ethnic antagonism.
 
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Lethe

Captain
Ukraine doesn't even have to "win". They just need to drag it out long enough that Russia decides to pack it in. See Afghanistan and the many countries that have stepped up to the plate there only to go home.

The US was able to walk away from Afghanistan for the simple reason that Afghanistan doesn't matter to American security interests and never did. Still, the ongoing costs of the US occupation were low enough, and American pride great enough, that it is actually quite surprising that the US left. Trump would likely not have ultimately accepted the "humiliating chaos" of the withdrawal that he initiated, while Biden would never have had the political capital or courage to get it going in the first place, but was willing to see it through because it coincided with his skepticism of the Afghan enterprise going back to his ringside seat in the Obama administration. Really, if you go back to 2015 and roll the dice, nine times out of ten the US is still in Afghanistan today.

The costs to Russia of a prolonged occupation of Ukraine are likely to be much, much higher, but their strategic investment in Ukraine is also much, much greater. And ultimately, Russia doesn't required Ukraine to be a functioning nation any more than the US requires Syria, Libya or Afghanistan to be functioning nations. While it is probably beyond Russia to create and maintain a new stable order in Ukraine, the more limited negative goal of wrecking the place (and keeping it wrecked) sufficiently that it cannot become an EU/NATO bastion is well within Russia's capabilities.
 
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Abominable

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Last bit as I still question Putin's endgame. Why? Pavel Slobodchikov is reported having been shot and possibly killed along with his wife. He is a member of the 'Kherson Rescue Committee' appointed by the occupying Russians. It is a small thing, but like when I noted the insignia on Russian tanks before the invasion convinced me there was going to be one, this act convinces me a long term occupation or a puppet regime is questionable.
If I was Putin I wouldn't trust any of them until I was in control of the place.
Ukraine doesn't even have to "win". They just need to drag it out long enough that Russia decides to pack it in. See Afghanistan and the many countries that have stepped up to the plate there only to go home.
Afghanistan/Iraq didn't drag it out in a conventional sense. They quickly let their institutions collapse and switched to a low level insurgency.

It's a lot easier to do that than to maintain hundreds of thousands of soldiers in forward positions with limited supply lines as the Ukrainians seem to be trying.
 

Abominable

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Anyone who understands russian language or observes the situation through the lense of the eastern side understands that the rules of engagement reflect long-term politics and not western style liberation and democratization. The difference is they still have to live next to Ukraine after the war unlike the US who just liberates every country they invade where the Population decreases roughly by 5%.
Pretty much. It's meaningless that your soldiers were welcomed in cities liberators if the people then spend the next 10-20 years trying to kill you as we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Compare Chechnya and Syria today with any country that's been "liberated" by America.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
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Some people are funny indeed. How about stop supplying those Javelin and MANPADS and other deadly weapons. HELMETS are okay!

Germany: "We are concerned over the use of a hypersonic missile by Russia in the war against Ukraine,"

21 March 2022
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That one serves as a clear warning for OTAN to not interfere directly so situation won't get worse! Some dumb heads in Warsaw & London are eager to jump into action... by pulling in the whole OTAN team, the war mongering yet coward won't dare to go on their own! Chihuahuas barking at a pit bull.

Why would Germany be concerned about it? Don't fight the Russians and you won't get on the receiving end of it. Pretty simple actually.
 
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sferrin

Junior Member
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The US was able to walk away from Afghanistan for the simple reason that Afghanistan doesn't matter to American security interests and never did. Still, the ongoing costs of the US occupation were low enough, and American pride great enough, that it is actually quite surprising that the US actually left. Trump would likely not have ultimately accepted the "humiliating chaos" of the withdrawal that he initiated,
"Pride"? On the contrary, most Americans wanted the US out of Afghanistan because it was a waste of blood and treasure. This is part of the reason Trump won in the first place. As for "humiliating chaos" the Trump administration had an organized exit planned. Brandon chose to do it his own way.
 
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