Ukrainian War Developments

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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
vincent said:
Not supporting Russia can lead to existential issues for China (the West’s actions in the last few years have amply demonstrated that). No price is worth endangering the survival of China.
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The question is how much does supporting russia likely to actually improve china’s position in the end.

I see a lot of “we must do something because it should work”, “or we do this because it feels good and russia’s enemies has above all failed to respect my pride”, and not diligent and non-wishthinking assessment of how well would it work and by how much would it work.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Richard Santos said:
The question is how much does supporting russia likely to actually improve china’s position in the end.

I see a lot of “we must do something because it should work”, not diligent and in wishthinking assessment of how well would it work and by how much would it work.
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Enough support so Russia doesn’t collapse or switch sides
 
I

Insignius

Junior Member
Richard Santos said:
The question is how much does supporting russia likely to actually improve china’s position in the end.

I see a lot of “we must do something because it should work”, “or we do this because it feels good and russia’s enemies has above all failed to respect my pride”, and not diligent and non-wishthinking assessment of how well would it work and by how much would it work.
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We help Russia to kill people who want to kill or are always ready to help killing Chinese people. Easy enough for you?

Make no mistake, AZOV were there at Hongkong Riots and if the US gives them the order, they will be the first to join in any military campaign against China. Azov will be raping and strangling pregnant Chinese women just as they have done in Odessa 2014.

Every bullet fired by Russia towards the West is a bullet they also fire in our stead.
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
China needs to support the re-orientation of Russian commodities exports to itself as much as possible.
This might include funding the expansion of rail transport and pipeline networks.

As for the claims in the last map that the Russians are sacrificing the decisive strategic point of Mariupol. That is BS. Since the Russians seem to be putting more and more reinforcements in that area. With regards to Zaporizhya, it makes no sense to enter a city with 720k people at this point. All the cities in the middle of the map like Zaporizhya or Dnipro can be just bypassed completely and cut from ressuply. As strategic objectives they have little value.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
China needs to support the re-orientation of Russian commodities exports to itself as much as possible.
This might include funding the expansion of rail transport and pipeline networks.
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We wanted to do that for years!
The fault is on Russia's side for all these delays.
Too much securitization, diplomatic hedging, EEU shenanigans, internal political/economic struggles etc

Even if everything was suddenly sorted out, we are talking about at least 4-year infrastructure projects here.
All these stupid games are now going to bite Putin's backside.
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
SDtom said:
Because we all live on this same rock in this universe.

Also, some of China's progress and development are derived from peaceful trading with other nations; including Ukraine and Russia. China is not doing forceful or unwanted interfering if Russia and Ukraine both accepts help from China to try to resolve their differences through diplomatical means.
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If that is the case, then why the West toppled the government of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya. If that is the case, then why the West tried to topple the government of China, Iran, Venezuela, and Syria. If that is the case, why the West funded so many revolutions such as Orange Revolution, Maidan Revolution, Arab Spring, and 2019 HK protests etc. If wars, conflicts and chaos are far away, Americans and Europeans don't give a damn and happily funded them or even started them. Now, Europe is at war, then suddenly we all live in the same world.

Soviet Union is no more. NATO as a military alliance has already served its purpose. Instead of dismantling the outdated alliance, the West expanded the organization to the footstep of Russia. If the West really cares about peace, then this shouldn't have happened. You has pushed Russia to the wall and expected them to cave and let you set up an Ukrainian government that is going to be forever used as a pawn to keep Russia in check.

If China helped you, would the West stop all their aggression against China. Would the West stop to expand more ABM in Asia. Would the West stop putting more THAAD in SK. Would the West stop arming Taiwan. Would the West stop interfere in China internal affair. The answers are no to all the above.

China wants peace but this isn't China's war. China isn't going to risk its alliance with Russia just for the sake of the West appreciation. Beside, if Russia got weakened, China is the next target.
 
james smith esq

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
China needs to support the re-orientation of Russian commodities exports to itself as much as possible.
This might include funding the expansion of rail transport and pipeline networks.
Click to expand...
I know it‘s crazy, but I’d like to see a joint commodities hub built on the borders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Outer Mongolia.

74A55240-BE01-49CE-87CB-4E8C9A4941A9.jpeg​
This would converge the Central Asian commodities trade quite nicely!
 
T

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
KYli said:
If that is the case, then why the West toppled the government of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya. If that is the case, then why the West tried to topple the government of China, Iran, Venezuela, and Syria. If that is the case, why the West funded so many revolutions such as Orange Revolution, Maidan Revolution, Arab Spring, and 2019 HK protests etc. If wars, conflicts and chaos are far away, Americans and Europeans don't give a damn and happily funded them or even started them. Now, Europe is at war, then suddenly we all live in the same world.

Soviet Union is no more. NATO as a military alliance has already served its purpose. Instead of dismantling the outdated alliance, the West expanded the organization to the footstep of Russia. If the West really cares about peace, then this shouldn't have happened. You has pushed Russia to the wall and expected them to cave and let you set up an Ukrainian government that is going to be forever used as a pawn to keep Russia in check.

If China helped you, would the West stop all their aggression against China. Would the West stop to expand more ABM in Asia. Would the West stop putting more THAAD in SK. Would the West stop arming Taiwan. Would the West stop interfere in China internal affair. The answers are no to all the above.

China wants peace but this isn't China's war. China isn't going to risk its alliance with Russia just for the sake of the West appreciation. Beside, if Russia got weakened, China is the next target.
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Given the nature of europeans and their descendants, if the itch for war is not curable then it would work out best for the world if all future conflicts are confined to Europe. The world existed for millennia without non-stop war before europeans polluted the world with conflict and exploitation beyond their means, and it can and should return to the old norm with the right inputs
 
james smith esq

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
We wanted to do that for years!
The fault is on Russia's side for all these delays.
Too much securitization, diplomatic hedging, EEU shenanigans, internal political/economic struggles etc

Even if everything was suddenly sorted out, we are talking about at least 4-year infrastructure projects here.
All these stupid games are now going to bite Putin's backside.
Click to expand...
Somebody, here, has been sayin this! Well, Putinini has no choice, now!
 
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