Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
An update from our friendly Nazis the Azov Battalion in Mariupol:

Kalyna, Deputy Commander of the Azov Regiment on the situation in Mariupol as of the evening of March 19, 2022:

As of this hour, the irreparable losses of Horde barbarians have reached 50 infantry, 2 tanks, 2 armored personnel carriers, 1 MTLB and one armored personnel carrier they left on the battlefield. Several trucks were also destroyed.

The land component of the enemy horde suffers heavy losses. These savages are handing out white armbands to civilians, making it more difficult for our military. But believe me, orcs, we understand where you are and where you are civilians!

We are ready to counterattack!
Just one step to the liberation of the South!
This is the unblocking of Mariupol and the decisive actions of real men!
Google translated from their twitter.

I imagine its like the scene in downfall over there.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Alright, it's too hard to reply to everyone that replies to me. So, let's just go through some basic points.

1) China is next, West will go after China.

Guess what, Trump and the China hawks in America tried their hardest to beat China for 4 years. Has that worked? At worst, you get a couple of small sanctions on China and complain that China is violating human rights or copying their products. Is that going to be really a problem for China? China is not that weak. It doesn't need Russia to stand up to the west. It needs to have its own supply chain so that it can have power over the west.
China needs to have secured flanks so she can focus on the Hegemon in the West Pac region. Ever wonder why the Quad was formed?
2) Russia will remember China helping them
Remember how quickly Northern Vietnam forgot China helping them? If you listen to Shilao's podcast, vietnam communists wants China to take over some of Xisha islands. As soon as they took over all of Vietnam and got Russians on their side, they turned their back on all of that. Do you really want to bet that Russia will always be under Putin's control and remember China standing by them?
There is no friendships between countries, only interests. From now and till the fall of the Hegemon (if ever), the interests of Russia and China are aligned.
3) So that Russia emerges this as a big threat to the West
That actually is a legitimate reason to dive in completely to help Russia. However, Russia is having trouble right now to even beat a rag tag bunch of Ukrainians. As Western weapons keep flooding in, Russia will just sink into a bigger quagmire. We've got another Afghanistan on hand.
The war in Ukraine can drag on forever. As long as Russia doesn't flip or fall, China doesn't care. Actually the war in Ukraine is good for China because it takes Europe's full attention and treasure. Europe will not have money to do civilian R & D or compete against Belt & Road with their Global Gateway.
The best thing for China is if Russia can negotiate a quick ceasefire where they retain Donbas and Crimea and Ukraine is demilitarized. Then, the west will be forced to ante up money to rebuild Ukraine. Otherwise, I don't see how all the Ukrainian refugees can go home. Russia will continue to be heavily sanctioned and motivated to work with China to build a competing finance/trade system that other countries can use. And as long as Russia hates the West, NATO cannot solely focus on China.

None of this requires China to provide military assistance to Russia during this conflict. China can help Russia by just keep trading with Russia and doing all the other things it has been doing.
Like I said earlier, the million dollar question is whether Russia actually made the request. If yes, China should honour the request because the Sino-Russian relationship matters much more than Sino-Euro relationship
Ukrainian refugee in Euro area is actually a destabilizing factor that can only benefit China in the grand scheme of things. Less social cohesion, less money on development, less focus on China....
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Russia does not have enough troops to conquer Ukraine.

And what exactly do you think it means for China to be next? Do you think America is going to invade China? Do you think Europe is going to do that? What can these countries really do? What are you afraid of?

If Russia did not invade Ukraine, what kind of terrible things do you think were going to happen to China?

short and intermediate range nuclear weapons deployed to japan, korea, vietnamese and eventually taiwan.

American easily has the power to make strategic position impossible for china without needing to invade china. China has no counter to this. China’s actually strategic position in a head to head contest with an america determined to contain china with any means is much worse than the Soviet Union’s position during the Cold war and roughly on par with what Russia’s strategic position would have become if Ukraine joined NATO.
 
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SDtom

New Member
Registered Member
It is a White men war. Why should yellow people interfere? You guys started two world wars already. From the look of it, you guys are looking for the third world war.

Because we all live on this same rock in this universe.

Also, some of China's progress and development are derived from peaceful trading with other nations; including Ukraine and Russia. China is not doing forceful or unwanted interfering if Russia and Ukraine both accepts help from China to try to resolve their differences through diplomatical means.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just read this new statement by PRC Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng. Whatever China has been saying for so many years has been proven (what a surprise..) to be correct. If the West had followed those points, there wouldn't be another war raging in Europe.

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The European continent is a key region for world peace. It was marred by two World Wars and was not tranquil after the Cold War. Now flames of war are reignited. This is indeed deeply distressing and more importantly, should prompt us to profoundly reflect...
The lesson is hard and painful. And the root cause lies in the Cold War mentality and power politics. 
First, one should not seek its own absolute security. Since NATO promised that it would move “not one inch eastward”, it should not renege on its word and keep pushing its boundary eastward by up to one thousand kilometers. Should this enlargement go further, it would be approaching the “outskirts of Moscow” where a missile could hit the Kremlin within seven or eight minutes. The Cuban Missile Crisis has offered a lesson. Such pursuit of absolute security actually leads to absolute insecurity. Pushing a major country, especially a nuclear power, to the corner would entail repercussions too dreadful to contemplate.  
Second, bloc politics and group confrontation should be rejected. Military bloc is a Cold War vestige. NATO and the Warsaw Pact were at loggerheads for nearly half a century. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, NATO should have been consigned to history alongside the Warsaw Pact. However, rather than breaking up, NATO has kept strengthening and expanding, and intervened militarily in countries like Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. In recent years, it even went so far as to flex muscle in the Asia-Pacific. One could well anticipate the consequences going down this path. The crisis in Ukraine is a stern warning.   
Third, globalization should not be “weaponized”. China has all along opposed unilateral sanctions that have neither basis in international law nor mandate of the Security Council. History has shown time and again that instead of solving problems, imposing sanctions is like “putting out fire with firewood” and will only make things worse. Sanctions against Russia are now going to such lengths that globalization is used as a weapon, even people from the sports, cultural, art and entertainment communities are not spared, cats and trees are sanctioned, and the overseas assets of Russian citizens are seized groundlessly. The West has long espoused the ideas of “science without borders”, “non-politicization of sports”, the sanctity and inviolability of private property, freedom of speech and the spirit of honoring contracts, etc. I’m afraid no one would believe in them any more. Do these sanctions intend to bring human society back to a primitive stage where communities are isolated and have nothing to do with each other? Sanctions would only bring harm to the people, disrupt the post-war economic and financial systems, and weigh on the struggling world economy. At least from what we see lately, the risks of a food crisis, energy crisis and financial crisis are all mounting. Oil price surged to over 130 US dollars per barrel, and the price of natural gas in Europe saw a ten-fold spike over the same period last year. The abuse of sanctions will bring catastrophic consequences for the entire world.
Fourth, small countries should not be used as a pawn. As we see in the world today, some big countries do not want to get dragged into conflicts and bring harm to themselves, so they make empty promises to small countries, turn small countries into their cat’s paw and even use them to fight proxy wars. A NATO commitment of no eastward expansion could have easily ended the crisis and stopped the sufferings. Instead, one chose to fan the flames at a safe distance, watching its own arms dealers, bankers and oil tycoons make a fortune out of the war while leaving people of a small country with the wounds of war that would take years to heal. This is highly immoral and irresponsible.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Just read this new statement by PRC Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng. Whatever China has been saying for so many years has been proven (what a surprise..) to be correct. If the West had followed those points, there wouldn't be another war raging in Europe.

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Pretty-much sums it up, and quite succinctly!

THIS STATEMENT DESERVES A THREAD OF ITS OWN

Official CPC Position On The Ukraine Conflict Within The Contemporary Geo-Political Context

Overbom, you’ve just brought relevance back to this thread!
 
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tank3487

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is no friendships between countries, only interests. From now and till the fall of the Hegemon (if ever), the interests of Russia and China are aligned.
It is not just that. China and Russia economies are actually fit for each other quite decently(with one being an industrial power horse and the second having massive resources). So allied relationships would be long term.
 
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