Ukrainian War Developments

Suetham said:

Amid warnings of looming Russian air strike, Ukraine requested as recently as yesterday air defense capabilities from the US, including Anti-aircraft missile batteries, counter-fire radar systems, electronic jamming devices, and the MIM-104 Patriot surface-to-air missile system

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None of this will help when the Russians blow them up with an MRLS barrage. Good luck invading the Donbass Ukrainian Army.

Suetham said:

Russia now claims that Ukraine will invade the Donbass region, putting a counterpoint to the "imminent" Russian invasion that has yet to take place.

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Supposedly the Ukrainians are conducting acts of sabotage on the Donbass region as we speak. That is why the Russians suspect an invasion by Ukraine is imminent.

Suetham said:

The problem is that no one knows what really happened. Who started attacking each other. There are advertisements from both sides.

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The Russians said that when the US and UK withdrew their OSCE observers from the border a couple days back it was clear evidence the Ukrainians would start artillery bombardments soon. Apparently they weren't wrong.

Bellum_Romanum said:

The subsequent annexation of Crimea or gained independence through unrecognized referendum. The separate enclave of Donbass and Lunestk?

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A lot of people don't know about this. But there were actual local movements in these places against the coup in Ukraine back in 2014. Yanukovych was from Donetsk.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Fast forward to Biden’s presidency, a so-called "diplomacy first" presidency the situation in Ukraine vs Russia has gotten worst to the point that a war between two culturally linked people are about to decapitate each other. Am I missing something here? Or am I seeing that the very actions and rhetoric of Joe Biden are what's caused this incoming human catastrophe.

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Back in 2014 war was impossible. The Ukrainian Army was in shambles.

Suetham said:

Putin signed a decree on the draft of Russians who are in reserve for military training

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Russia would not need to do the draft just to invade Ukraine. This is clear manifestation to me that they expect a larger conflict with NATO proper.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Appreciate the reply. But my problem with the whole Russia invasion thing is that it'll create a massive economic problem for Putin and regardless of how strong Russia is militarily that will not be enough to feed his people, provide them economic prosperity, jobs to have for a stable future. And if Putin decides to go YOLO he's essentially condemning his country to a future that will bring about the collapse of his popularity, his party which means destabilization ala repeat of 1991 where a new pro-western Russian political can emerge and then has the potential to join the if you can't beat them join them club, a.k.a. the U.S. and Europe. Which means, that's a big TROUBLE FOR CHINA.

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The US is starting these conflicts because it knows they can't win by peaceful means. So they did the Color Revolutions, Arab Spring, and this conflict. It has been a strategy ever since Obama was President. Before him you had the conflict in Chechnya and hybrid conflicts using terrorist attacks to attempt to destabilize Russia directly. And Putin knows the sanctions on Russia will happen regardless if there is a war or not. He said as much just recently on a press meeting with Lukashenko. Try reading about the US Magnitsky Act. The US cannot allow Russia to continue on its ascendant trajectory.

Nor could the US allow Europe to have an independent defense policy before this. I said this much some time ago in here, it is almost impossible to have an independent EU defense policy without France and the UK on it. They are the only countries in the EU with power projection capabilities. When the UK left the EU it made an EU defense policy basically impossible.

Bellum_Romanum said:

It's clear to me that this while Ukraine shit was pushed and prodded by the Biden administration from the word go in order to weaken Russia economically by crippling it's energy sector business with Europe. Thereby permanently crippling or chipping it away from Europe which would now then become more economic subservient to the U.S. LNG and also major arms buyer for U.S. military industries.

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There is no way Europe can do without Russian gas for at least a decade. Not without a lot of people dying and industry collapsing anyway. If European politicians don't know this hard reality then the European people will suffer.
The US LNG industry is a midget and cannot possibly cover the natural gas shortfall.



1 bcm of gas is equal to 678,000 tons of gas. 44.8 million tons of gas is 66 bcm of gas. Russia exported over 201 bcm of piped gas to Europe in 2018.

DNR is calling a general mobilization.

gelgoog said:

None of this will help when the Russians blow them up with an MRLS barrage. Good luck invading the Donbass Ukrainian Army.

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Skipping the rest. Generally disagree, but wanted to point out something specifically: I doubt blasting patriots with MRLS would be worthwhile. I have a feeling Patriot missiles are going to take more than a day to learn how to use. Russians ought to let the Ukrainians have them. Then bypass and comeback to collect.

anzha said:

I have a feeling Patriot missiles are going to take more than a day to learn how to use. Russians ought to let the Ukrainians have them. Then bypass and comeback to collect.

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Patriot can't even defend properly against Iranian missiles. There is nothing there to copy.

Why are some people on here rooting for continued US aggression and escalation in Europe towards Russia ? Once the US is "done" with Russia , it will be going after China; FULL FORCE!

Laviduce said:

It disturbs me to read on here that Russia's response to US aggression in Ukraine is seen as the problem. FYI: A foreign nation funding and organizing a coup to topple the government of another country in order to install their puppets in that country is not LEGAL according to international law!!!


"No State or group of States has the right to intervene,
directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the
internal or external affairs of any other State.
Consequently, armed intervention and all other forms of
interference or attempted threats against the personality of
the State or against its political, economic and cultural
elements, are in violation of international law."

1883rd plenary meeting, 24 October 1970
ANNEX
DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW CONCERNING
FRIENDLY RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION AMONG STATES IN
ACCORDANCE WITH THE CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS

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In 2014 the US toppled the government of Ukraine via its proxies. Russia responded by reuniting with Crimea and supporting eastern Ukrainians (Donetsk and Luhansk republics) in their fight against the US installed regime in Kiev.

If this had been a just world, the US and the lackey countries that supported this blatant act of aggression should been sanctioned heavily and their puppets removed from Kiev and prosecuted. Proper elections should have been held.

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Laviduce said:

Why are some people on here rooting for continued US aggression and escalation in Europe towards Russia ? Once the US is "done" with Russia , it will be going after China; FULL FORCE!

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I don’t think there is going to be a scenario where the US is going to be done with Russia. Russia has been pushed around long enough and now is there time to finally get some long awaited payback. China will be their to aid Russia when the time comes and this time, I don’t think the US is remotely prepared for the coming war given their performances in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, all of which those wars must have drained a lot of resources to the point where the US is trying to get other nations to gang up on Russia where they shouldn’t have to

The US just printed a bazillion dollars so they can pay for it. It was a massive waste of time for them where China and Russia either caught up or surpassed them in some areas but they think they can solve that. Still their economy in shambles. But we will see.

Further nutjobbery from Annalena:

If Russia violates international law by invading Ukraine and China looks the other way, Germany "cannot have normal relations" with Beijing tells



So the US invading/destabilizing/bombing/toppling the government of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, creating mayhem in HK, Venezuela, Afghanistan etc. is totally OK for Annalena ?

Maybe Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi should inform his German counterpart that:

"The PRC will no longer tolerate Germany aiding and abetting a criminal regime (the Neocon/Neolib US) and that China can no longer have normal relations with Berlin if Berlin decides to continue to act this irresponsibly. "

Laviduce said:

Further nutjobbery from Annalena:

If Russia violates international law by invading Ukraine and China looks the other way, Germany "cannot have normal relations" with Beijing

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tells

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View attachment 83085

So the US invading/destabilizing/bombing/toppling the government of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, creating mayhem in HK, Venezuela, Afghanistan etc. is totally OK for Annalena ?

Maybe Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi should inform his German counterpart that:

"The PRC will no longer tolerate Germany aiding and abetting a criminal regime (the Neocon/Neolib US) and that China can no longer have normal relations with Berlin if Berlin decides to continue to act this irresponsibly. "

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Ignore her. She is a CIA asset.
Xi is leaving rent free in her head

Bellum_Romanum said:

How the f.. did we arrive at this juncture? What's the genesis of this conflict, what I mean is when did the escalation started? Can you help enlighten me on this issue? I am well aware that the Russia vs Ukraine stems from the unraveling of the previous pro-Russian government that was toppled what is commonly known as the Maidan revolution. The subsequent annexation of Crimea or gained independence through unrecognized referendum. The separate enclave of Donbass and Lunestk?

But the prospect of war during Trump’s presidency didn't become a factor nor was the Ukrainian government headed by the same comedian President Zalanksy were itching or making any provocative move against Russia during that time. Fast forward to Biden’s presidency, a so-called "diplomacy first" presidency the situation in Ukraine vs Russia has gotten worst to the point that a war between two culturally linked people are about to decapitate each other. Am I missing something here? Or am I seeing that the very actions and rhetoric of Joe Biden are what's caused this incoming human catastrophe.

@Overbom help me understand or fill any gaps here will you.

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I would simply say try not to get caught up in the overblown rhetoric and wishful thinking of the US. Putin has shown that just by moving his forces around and putting them through exercises, that he can bring the Ukraine (and to a degree NATO) to its knees. This of course assumes that these troop numbers are even real and not simply a self defeating imaginary invention of the West.
The rhetoric coming from Washington and delegates at Munich has more than an air of desperation about them.
Can it be that all the overblown rhetoric of recent weeks was supposed to be matched by actions on the ground that never happened? Have planned provocations been blocked by Russian Intelligence, making the West look very foolish?

Putin has many cards and has proved a very canny player. It would take more than one simple provocation to force him to take obvious and overt action and it is likely that the attempt to do so would mean a provocation on a scale which could not be hidden or misrepresented, thus providing a legitimate Casus Belli.

Never mind what Washington says Putin is going to do, only Putin knows how he will react and he is sharper than any of them.