Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

Major
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Guardian update. Not sure how US UK and Turkey are supposed to guarantee security of Ukraine without at least some presence there. Anyway this plan would succeed in ending the immediate conflict and giving Ukraine time to properly tool up with western kit so as to give Russia an even bigger thrashing if they try anything again. Sanctions should stay until Putin is handed over to the Hague, the sequestered Russian reserves should be used to compensate Ukraine for the damage caused.


Ukraine and Russia have drawn up a tentative peace plan including a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal if Kyiv declares neutrality and accepts limits on its armed forces, the
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citing three sources involved in the talks.


The proposed deal would involve
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renouncing its ambitions to join Nato and promising not to host foreign military bases or weaponry in exchange for protection from allies such as the US, UK and Turkey, the people said.

Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
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, told the FT that any deal would involve “the troops of the Russian Federation in any case leaving the territory of Ukraine” captured since the invasion began on 24 February – namely southern regions along the Azov and Black Seas, as well as territory to the east and north of Kyiv.

Ukrainian and Russian negotiators discussed the tentative 15-point plan in full for the first time on Monday, the paper reports.
The media is lying, and the Guardian article is just reposting what the FT says.

The only thing they've come close to agreeing on is the neutrality point. E.g. Ukraine won't be joining NATO. The real red lines will be the territorial issues, which has not even been discussed.

Both sides are so far apart from each other I can't see an agreement being reached any time soon.

Zelensky is just buying time because he thinks NATO will come in and save him.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Anyway this plan would succeed in ending the immediate conflict and giving Ukraine time to properly tool up with western kit so as to give Russia an even bigger thrashing if they try anything again.
Ukraine and Russia have drawn up a tentative peace plan including a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal if Kyiv declares neutrality and accepts limits on its armed forces
You might want to curb your enthusiasm and improve your reading comprehension.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
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"Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
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, told the FT that any deal would involve “the troops of the Russian Federation in any case leaving the territory of Ukraine” captured since the invasion began on 24 February – namely southern regions along the Azov and Black Seas, as well as territory to the east and north of Kyiv"


According to the report, that is a major indication of Ukraine's stance on territorial issues. It might indeed be what the Ukrainians are ready to compromise for: the defacto acceptance of the forfeiture of Crimea and areas of the Donbass Region.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Guardian update. Not sure how US UK and Turkey are supposed to guarantee security of Ukraine without at least some presence there. Anyway this plan would succeed in ending the immediate conflict and giving Ukraine time to properly tool up with western kit so as to give Russia an even bigger thrashing if they try anything again. Sanctions should stay until Putin is handed over to the Hague, the sequestered Russian reserves should be used to compensate Ukraine for the damage caused.


Ukraine and Russia have drawn up a tentative peace plan including a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal if Kyiv declares neutrality and accepts limits on its armed forces, the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
citing three sources involved in the talks.


The proposed deal would involve
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renouncing its ambitions to join Nato and promising not to host foreign military bases or weaponry in exchange for protection from allies such as the US, UK and Turkey, the people said.

Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
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, told the FT that any deal would involve “the troops of the Russian Federation in any case leaving the territory of Ukraine” captured since the invasion began on 24 February – namely southern regions along the Azov and Black Seas, as well as territory to the east and north of Kyiv.

Ukrainian and Russian negotiators discussed the tentative 15-point plan in full for the first time on Monday, the paper reports.
If they discussed on Monday then the talks failed. Mariupol is getting turned into ruins.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
"Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Ukrainian president
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, told the FT that any deal would involve “the troops of the Russian Federation in any case leaving the territory of Ukraine” captured since the invasion began on 24 February – namely southern regions along the Azov and Black Seas, as well as territory to the east and north of Kyiv"


According to the report, that is a major indication of Ukraine's stance on territorial issues. It might indeed be what the Ukrainians are ready to compromise for: the defacto acceptance of the forfeiture of Crimea and areas of the Donbass Region.
Russia claims all of the Donbas. Accepting a half measure is not good.
 

ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
More on the peace talks:

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Key Ukrainian position imo:

"Podolyak said a key part of any deal would be agreement by the west that they would come to Ukraine’s aid in the event of any future conflict with Russia and that there would be no hesitation in imposing a “no-fly zone”."

Early 19th european century style alliance mechanism revived or just NATO light?
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not seen any evidence whatsoever for this. But we must take this unsubstantiated claim of a Russian win as absolute Gospel, whilst ignoring the photographic evidence of Russian losses that Oryx provides.
And according to your posts, Ukraine should be surrounding Moscow right now. Btw how's Russian ship that was supposedly destroyed?

Oryx has a lot of repeats, I've seen the pictures. They take pro Ukraine pictures without question.
 
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