Ukrainian War Developments

solarz said:

You exhibit that typical Western mentality of applying your own narrow morality to international relations.

Yeah, we get it, for whatever reason you don't like Russia. However, regardless of what you like or don't like, Russia is a vital security and economic partner of China. Russia's mere existence diverts half the US military away from China, and that alone would be reason enough to support Russia.

Finally, a comment on your "pit barbarians against barbarians" idea. That is a strategy invariably used by weakened Chinese dynasties, such as the late Qing dynasty. At best it is a ploy to kick the can down the road, and at worst it's a self-delusion designed to maintain the illusion of one's own superiority.

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I dislike Russia because their annexations of strategic naval base Sevastopol reminds me too much of Russian annexation of Vladivostok to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China, or Russian annexation of Port Arthur (Dalian) to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China.

The parallels between recent annexation is too similar to Russian aggression against China via Unequal Treaties. Based on principle, I am against all annexation of territory based on irredenticist claims and "strategic naval ports" because what if China becomes weak again? ( I pray this never happens)

Phead128 said:

I dislike Russia because their annexations of strategic naval base Sevastopol reminds me too much of Russian annexation of Vladivostok to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China, or Russian annexation of Port Arthur (Dalian) to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China.

The parallels between recent annexation is too similar to Russian aggression against China via Unequal Treaties. Based on principle, I am against all annexation of territory based on irredenticist claims and "strategic naval ports" because what if China becomes weak again? ( I pray this never happens)

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Well ok, on that note, there's a critical difference with Crimea: it used to belong to Russia, but the Soviet Union gave it to Ukraine while both Russia and Ukraine were under the Soviet Union.

After the dissolution of USSR, for all practical purposes, Ukraine kept Crimea while Russia kept their naval base in Crimea. The closest analogy with China would be Japan keeping Diaoyu Island, so no, I don't see this as Russian aggression at all.

Phead128 said:

I dislike Russia because their annexations of strategic naval base Sevastopol reminds me too much of Russian annexation of Vladivostok to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China, or Russian annexation of Port Arthur (Dalian) to gain a warm water strategic naval port from Qing China.

The parallels between recent annexation is too similar to Russian aggression against China via Unequal Treaties. Based on principle, I am against all annexation of territory based on irredenticist claims and "strategic naval ports" because what if China becomes weak again? ( I pray this never happens)

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You are letting your emotion of history to determine your life and well-being today. Who would you buddy up if you have to make a choice?

• The guy whose grand father took a chunk of your farmland 100 years ago. Or the guy who puts a knife at your throat and a gun at your heart right now?
• The guy who is harmless now. Or the guy who is able to and going to kill you in a blink of eye if given the chance?

All Chinese know the history that you just described . But you are certainly the minority among Chinese, evident from this thread, in making a judgement of who China is to befriend with.

You are born and grew up in a British built environment (education, media, culture) whose 1st purpose was/is to make Hongkonger to hate any opponent of the west, that includes not only PRC but Russia too. Putting a wedge between any two anti-west countries are the central point of the west's brainwashing activity.

People from Mainland China know not only what Czarist Russia did, BUT ALSO what the British (and USA) did since 1849 all the way to Hongkong 2020. So yes the Russians are doing something not fully complying principles, but most Chinese are glad that the Russians are messing up the US or its puppet.

The stupidity of the UK and the EU reaching new height.

The ICE natural gas contracts reached 327 pence/therm , it is roughtly ten times higher than the USA price.

And what is the most important of the fools ? Antagonize Russia more.

I mean, who care about Ukraine ?
But I definitivly care about the gas price.

And by the sequence of events the Russians reached the level when they don't want to sell gas throught Ukriane and on the spot markets of the EU.

And the answer of the European Jesters ?
Prepare sanctions and stop the NS2.

NOT say starta talk with russia, hear they request, try to establish a contract with the biggest suplier that actually fit they need as well.

Or it they care that much about the ukraine gas transit then why not buy the gas on the Ukrainan - Russian border, and make the transfer contract between EU-Ukraine ?
Maybe Ukraine can't be trusted that much ?

Modern state creation is all due to population migration. people choose countries based on where they want to live. we are living in highly educated world with access to information.
if Australia become majority Asian. there is more likelyhood of visa free facility with Asian countries that will already reinforce the trends.
similar things are happening with Ukraine.
in 2019 18m vote cast with 244k invalid.
in 2004 30.5m vote caste.

where all the people went?

even Poland with much modern election system has 250K invalid votes.

Anlsvrthng said:

Or it they care that much about the ukraine gas transit then why not buy the gas on the Ukrainan - Russian border, and make the transfer contract between EU-Ukraine ?
Maybe Ukraine can't be trusted that much ?

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I think Ukraine vowed to cut energy dependance from Russia by 2024. This is a strategic move (arguably possible) so Russians cannot sit right there like jerks, they would try to exploit the situation.
Anyways, the color revolution in Ukraine never worked as programmed. Got stricken by a common reflex to both countries, the Soviet past. Immediately after the color revolution, Ukraine neonazis tried to erase everything reminds the Soviet past, banned and purged the Communist party of Ukraine, burned down the Unions building in Odessa etc. On the other hand, the separatist forces held USSR banners, military leaders were openly declaring themselves Communists (Mozgovoi, Zaharchenko-both killed by Ukrainian special forces operations). As for semiotics, the separatist forces declared two "People's republics" not some XYZ states and Soviet monuments and past are regulargy celebrated. Fun fact, two of the most symbolic USSR leaders were Ukrainians (Khruschev, Brezhnev) so nationalist Ukrainians have no reason to complain about the "Russocentricity" of USSR. Nazi Ukrainians who came into power after the color revolution falsefully see a defacto enemy,the USSR, in the face of Russia. Just like the whole western complex. Why so much pressure to Russia? You are both capitalists at the end of the day

Phead128 said:

Yes some overseas Chinese have drank the Russian kool-aid.

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@Phead128 compare to an American kool-aid this one taste good. , I'm an avid student of History and you should too, like I said Kievan Rus is the cradle of Slavic civilization and both Ukraine and Russian are brethren. Like what happening in Taiwan outside forces are interfering and Mother Russia having experience heavy losses in WW2, those scars are still fresh and are determined not to happened again.

And by the tone of your words, I'm not surprise, living in the state, you've been trained or taught to express your view freely. We Asian before opening our mouth need to present evidence first. I hope we can have a nice conversation this kind of personal attack will not change each other view.

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Phead128 said:

I am using your words by applying it to another strategic naval base that Russian controlled (e.g. Port Arthur in Dalian)

If you let Russia get away with Crimean annexation because Sevastopol was a strategic port and vaguely "they exhibited hostility" then the same logic could apply to Russians annexing Port Arthur because of Boxer Rebellion, right? I know Port Arthur was conquered by Japan, but just saying, it could have been annexed by Russia using your logic and reasoning.

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There are only national interests between countries. The national interest of China is to keep Russia friendly. Ukraine is a mere pawn.

And with Ukraine stealing billions of China's money, I don't think China will worry too much for its territorial integrity. If Ukraine wants to be even aknowledged by China, it better cough up the stolen money and return them back to China

To keep things in short, China deals with Russia based on its national interests, not on morality, hypocrisy or how it would like the world to be

2handedswordsman said:

I think Ukraine vowed to cut energy dependance from Russia by 2024. This is a strategic move (arguably possible) so Russians cannot sit right there like jerks, they would try to exploit the situation.
Anyways, the color revolution in Ukraine never worked as programmed. Got stricken by a common reflex to both countries, the Soviet past. Immediately after the color revolution, Ukraine neonazis tried to erase everything reminds the Soviet past, banned and purged the Communist party of Ukraine, burned down the Unions building in Odessa etc. On the other hand, the separatist forces held USSR banners, military leaders were openly declaring themselves Communists (Mozgovoi, Zaharchenko-both killed by Ukrainian special forces operations). As for semiotics, the separatist forces declared two "People's republics" not some XYZ states and Soviet monuments and past are regulargy celebrated. Fun fact, two of the most symbolic USSR leaders were Ukrainians (Khruschev, Brezhnev) so nationalist Ukrainians have no reason to complain about the "Russocentricity" of USSR. Nazi Ukrainians who came into power after the color revolution falsefully see a defacto enemy,the USSR, in the face of Russia. Just like the whole western complex. Why so much pressure to Russia? You are both capitalists at the end of the day

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@2handedswordsman bro sorry but I disagree, it's the other way around, Ukraine badly needed Russia especially on Energy, they are neighbors, the US and Europe are far away. And this Ruckus is all about Nord Stream 2, if it become operation, it can sidelined Ukraine cause there is an alternative, The Ukraine pipeline is old and Dilapidated and in needs of repair, if EU is serious about helping Ukraine they should provide money and repaired it instead they build and finance another one. Ohh I forget to include the Gas transit revenue that will be lost amounting to billions of Dollar if Nord stream 2 become operational.

The West is losing its grip in Ukraine, the Neocon project is a failure cause the Russian respond aggressively. The same thing with Taiwan cause both countries has Escalatory Dominance and the peripheries don't want a war in their neighborhood.