Type 95 Assault Rifle II

RedMercury

Junior Member
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Source for this? I suspected similar, but I have read no tests about anesthetized, armored sheep :D
 

Inst

Captain
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

They should mix in conventional assault rifle bullets in 5.8mm as you don't want US forces to counter simply by taking off their armor.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

They should mix in conventional assault rifle bullets in 5.8mm as you don't want US forces to counter simply by taking off their armor.

I won't consider taking off armor an effective response. Even if you survive a through and through, you are most likely a mission kill already and is a liability to your squad mates in the continuing firefight.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

The 5.8 has inherantly superior armour penetration qualities compared to 5.56. Its not because they use armour penetrating rounds. The sniper rifle round and LMG round are said to be much better at armour penetration, and there is talk that the rumored improved type 95 uses that round as standard.

As for enemy forces removing body armour, well thats not very likely. And the better armour penetrating power of small cal rounds may be a reason the PLA has not widely introduced body armour yet. What's the point in issuing expensive armour if its more likely to get your men killed? If soldiers never had body armour, they will be fine going into battle without it, but once they have been issued it, it will be a big blow to moral and combat effectiveness to order them to take it off, even if it is actually better. And there will also be massive potential lawsuits for troops who were killed after being ordered to remove armour. Its just not likely to happen.

In the event it does happen, and against foes who don't have armour, the PLA should really look into the open tipped rounds US snipers have been using in iraq and afghanistan for years. The great and goof of american military law has ruled that such rounds are different enough from hollow points to not violate the geniva convention. So im sure they will have no issues whatsoever if such rounds were used against them and their allies. :rolleyes:
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

They should mix in conventional assault rifle bullets in 5.8mm as you don't want US forces to counter simply by taking off their armor.

I am pretty sure that guns capable of firing different calibre rounds require some heavy modifications. I saw one such rifle capable of firing both M-16 and AK-47 rounds on Future Weapons that could technically be used by Commandos infiltrating Taliban territories without leaving evidence (M-16 shell casings). I can't recall of the name of that particular weapon so if someone knows what it is called please tell me.

As many posters stated before me taking off the body armor will reduce injury but you'll still be dead if you are hit. Getting hit by an assault rifle is no laughing matter.
 

In4ser

Junior Member
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

I am pretty sure that guns capable of firing different calibre rounds require some heavy modifications. I saw one such rifle capable of firing both M-16 and AK-47 rounds on Future Weapons that could technically be used by Commandos infiltrating Taliban territories without leaving evidence (M-16 shell casings). I can't recall of the name of that particular weapon so if someone knows what it is called please tell me.

As many posters stated before me taking off the body armor will reduce injury but you'll still be dead if you are hit. Getting hit by an assault rifle is no laughing matter.

Magpul Masada later bought and acquired by Remington as the ACR is what I think you are talking about.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

In the event it does happen, and against foes who don't have armour, the PLA should really look into the open tipped rounds US snipers have been using in iraq and afghanistan for years. The great and goof of american military law has ruled that such rounds are different enough from hollow points to not violate the geniva convention. So im sure they will have no issues whatsoever if such rounds were used against them and their allies
The reason American Snipers and Some special ops get away with open tip round (Not hollow points ) is because of flight performance, not Ballistic performance the Convention does ban using a round developed or modified too cause more damage too the enemy.
Second Removing body armor would not save a soldier form the round it would open them too other kinds of injuries negated by the Armor such as Fire, shrapnel or explosive forces Currently absorbed by the armor. It's Ironic really there are so many Us wounded today yet the in the past the attacks that today end in WIA's Would have caused KIA's the armor on American and allies protects the most venerable parts the same locations once covered by Roman soldiers and on the Greek hoplite's the chest, back, kidneys shoulders, Groin and head. the more likely answer too a improved anti armor round is a Improved Armor. Lamellar gave too bronze breastplate's and linothorax gave too Chain mail and Iron plate these became more solid until the Knight became the lumbering steel behemoth but then the bullet killed him that is until Kevlar and Ceramic.

finally the Weapon on Future weapons was the Masada however Weapons of the west packing rounds of the East is not a new Idea, in the 60's HK created the HK32 for the West German forces incase the East ever over ran them they could use Russian Rounds like an AK but with all the goodies of a G3, The Isrealies IWI Galil was and Is an updated AK that comes in either 556 or 762x32, the Mini thirty was and is a version of the Mini 14 that packs AK rounds, after the invasion of Iraq Troops running low on 556 but loaded up with AK mags asked if they could find some way of using both as needed SOCOM cooked up the Abortive SR-47 concept. although issues kept it form entry into service, still a a number of AR makers like Olympic arms and Del-Ton Inc built AK fed AR's, the Idea of weapon with a open Diet was not forgot today any number of weapons list as feeding on what the troops who use it want. In the US the Remington/ Bushmaster ACR ( both makers have the rights as they are owned by the same parent corporation the Freedom Arms group, It's self Owned by Cerberus investments who for a short time owned Chrysler), ROBAR XCR and MGI hydra ( a direct decedent of the SR47 ) all offer multi caliber options. Around the World the Barreta ARX160, CZ 805 BREN,FN SCAR ( the Maker FN is a Belgian State owned arms maker and SCAR's have been seen in other nations.) , the Russian A-91M bullpup ( at least I think this one does) and Truvelo Raptor also offer Conversion between Nato and (now Former) Warsaw Pack standards
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

The reason American Snipers and Some special ops get away with open tip round (Not hollow points ) is because of flight performance, not Ballistic performance the Convention does ban using a round developed or modified too cause more damage too the enemy.

That is the worst kind of lawyering (not directed at you but the people who first came up with the excuse) as it aims to be able to break the spirit of the law while obeying the wording.

Snipers might like the open tips for their ballistics (mainly but certainly not exclusively), but SpecOps use them for the stopping power.

The US military is also developing new rounds that are more unstable and prone to tumble after entering the body to increase stopping power while retaining the geneva convention requirement of a FMJ round.

As for better armour, well its always been an arms race between spear and shield since the first day men started bashing each other over the head with rocks and clubs and will still be the case long after we are all ashes and dust.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

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and I quote.
Legal concerns

Before the SOST round could be fielded by the Corps, it had to clear a legal hurdle: approval that it met international law of war standards.

The process is standard for new weapons and weapons systems, but it took on added significance because of the bullet’s design. Open-tip bullets have been approved for use by U.S. forces for decades, but are sometimes confused with hollow-point rounds, which expand in human tissue after impact, causing unnecessary suffering, according to widely accepted international treaties signed following the Hague peace conventions held in the Netherlands in 1899 and 1907.

“We need to be very clear in drawing this distinction: This is not a hollow-point round, which is not permitted,” Brogan said. “It has been through law of land warfare review and has passed that review so that it meets the criteria of not causing unnecessary pain and suffering.”

The open-tip/hollow-point dilemma has been addressed several times by the military, including in 1990, when the chief of the Judge Advocate General International Law Branch, now-retired Marine Col. W. Hays Parks, advised that the open-tip M852 Sierra MatchKing round preferred by snipers met international law requirements. The round was kept in the field.

In a 3,000-word memorandum to Army Special Operations Command, Parks said “unnecessary suffering” and “superfluous injury” have not been formally defined, leaving the U.S. with a “balancing test” it must conduct to assess whether the usage of each kind of rifle round is justified.

“The test is not easily applied,” Parks said. “For this reason, the degree of ‘superfluous injury’ must … outweigh substantially the military necessity for the weapon system or projectile.”

John Cerone, an expert in the law of armed conflict and professor at the New England School of Law, said the military’s interpretation of international law is widely accepted. It is understood that weapons cause pain in war, and as long as there is a strategic military reason for their employment, they typically meet international guidelines, he said.

“In order to fall within the prohibition, a weapon has to be designed to cause unnecessary suffering,” he said.

Sixteen years after Parks issued his memo, an Army unit in Iraq temporarily banned the open-tip M118 long-range used by snipers after a JAG officer mistook it for hollow-tip ammunition, according to a 2006 Washington Times report. The decision was overturned when other Army officials were alerted.
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HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Source for this? I suspected similar, but I have read no tests about anesthetized, armored sheep :D
would be on my old desktop, which I'm not at. Really busy nowdays but will give you the source when all work is easing off.
 
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